Jeff Allen's Tucker Dog

[Mike Leonard]

The Slim dog is a heck of a dog but he is not all old strain. Cindy hard to beat goes back to Hank. Anybody out there but me still have an own son of Hank?

[hunt14]

Well then......Grandpa is out of the question rz I guess that is why Jeff crossed his females onto Joey, grandpa's brother. Why did he castrate him high desert?

Mike tell me a little more about the slim dog. He was killed a while back by a bear I believe but that cross on Cindy was dynamite.

[Mr.pacojack]

So Mike give us a little history on ole Hank? Breeding?

[Mike Leonard]

Jeff's old strain was initiated by a dog that Jeff had called Ace. Ace was a walker colored dog mostly white and I will have to quiz Jeff again but I think he came from Leon's Cox's dogs. Leon as most know is one of the tried and true old time dirt hunters of Utah. He and Merlin(Milt) Holt cut their teeth as they assisited Jack Butler Utah's most famous lion hunter for many years. Their dog obviously had a lot of Jack's old breeding in them as well as dog they got from Charlie Tant the famous Califonia lion hunter. Charlie's last two great dogs Gomer and Festus out of Little Rounder were purchased by Leon and Jerry Hughes of Nevada. These dogs were eventually crossed on some early dogs from Lester Nance of Indiana. This was about the time that Marvin Glenn of Arizona( Warner's Father) also got dogs from Lester Nance as well as Joe House and John Monroe and started his strain of walker big game dogs. Anyway Ace was a great lion dog for Jeff and produced some really great hounds as well. Too many for me to name but a few starting with the most famous( Jeff's Old Hank, Sam Ray's Tick dog, Mike Leonard's old Big Nosed Kate) anyway Hank produced much like his father and they both lived and hunted and bred till they were very old dogs.Some of the most famous dogs out of Hank also came from a single black female that originally came from Stan Meacham she was rumored to be part bluetick and some bloodhound. The particular cross of these old line walker type dogs onto this female really seemed to click. My Jiggs dog is out of this old female who was AI'd by Jeff after Hank's death. He was smart enough to have him collected and so his line still lives on. Cindy and Badger are also product of this.

I probably didn't get all the facts straight and I will quiz Jeff a little more on Ace when I talk to him but one thing is for sure this line of dogs has certainly made a lot of history on lions. Jeff interest in his current Nance dogs was no doubt spurred by his success with some of the earlier dogs of this line.

[festus]

Mike,
Great post thanks for the history on those old dogs. Just to add a little more history. Jerry Hughes and my uncle David Welch bought Milt Holts pack of dogs when Milt sold out and quite hunting.
Milt had bred a willey Carroll bred female to a son of the old original Nances Topper dog. This cross produced a dog by the name of Joker. Leon Cox bought Joker and a littermate brother to him from Milt Holt.

My uncle David and Jerry partnered up in the 70's and started guiding together in NV. and UT. They bought Joker from Leon Cox. Joker was the best dog my uncle David and jerry ever had, they both told me that on many occasions. All of there dogs eventually were line bred on old Joker. I talked to Leon one time about Joker, and Leon told me the brother to Joker that he kept was just as good as Joker, and Leon bred around that dog for alot of years. As you know Jeff got alot of his original dogs from Leon, so I bet old Ace and Hank both had some of that old Nance blood in them as well.

[Mike Leonard]

I believe Ace was out of Joker or a son of Joker and a half sister cross. Yes heavy on the old Nance. My Gunner and Booger dogs came from Jeff and could have both jumped right out of Lester Nances book in looks and actions. When I got the three sons of Ace from Glenn McHarg's widow I also got a walker male out of a son of Joker that came from Jerry and Dave Welch. This actually was a younger dog than the others. I was just caretaking these dogs and I believe possibly Dave or one of your relatives came over and took the dog back to Utah, as that had been agreed up by Glenn when he lived in Kanab and got the dog. That would have been about 1993 or 94.

[festus]

Mike,
Yes, that very well could have been. I know uncle David and Jerry kept Joker until he was deaf. Then they sold to one of Jerry's friends in Nevada somewhere. Old Joker was buy far one of the best hounds I was ever around. I do know alot of top hunters like Bert Emmett, Stan Mecham, Hal Mecham, Jerry Barns, Leon Cox, Charlie Leeder, Larry Walker and some others sure liked that Joker dog and his pups.

Uncle David had a couple of littermate brother's out of Joker he called Luke and Ruben that were for sure the real deal as well. I had a dog out Luke I called Jake that I sold to Hal Mecham. Hal said Jake was one of the toughest dogs he ever hunted with. As far as I know that old Joker blood is pretty tough to get ahold of now days. Jeff is pretty much the only one I know of that was smart enough to line breed and keep that old blood going.
The Nance blood of today sure makes some nice biggame dogs, but even Jeff will tell you they are not near as tough a dog physically or mentaly as those old Joker bred dogs like old Ace, Hank and Cindy. I have a female here out of Sampson and a daughter of Ace I sure do like. Seems to me that old Nance blood was a big part of these old southwestern dry ground hounds.

[Mike Leonard]

Josh,

I think there is a lot of history behind those old dogs, and a ton of trails and lions. I never got to hunt with Ace, I did hunt with Hank and he was pretty unreal but his whole life was lion I mean hundreds of lions. He was double tuff and he had the stuff. I am sure there still some work to do on these SW Nance dogs but I recall Jeff telling me somthing one time that really spurred my interest. He said Mike I am telling you the Topper dog is fast on a bad track! I said how fast? He said well I have seen him up and run off and leave Cindy in the dust. What, you can't mean that? I mean it that is why I am so wound up about these dogs he is filthy cold nosed and leathal fast. So you can guess why Jeff's new stud dog Ace is what he is........

[festus]

Mike,
That track speed and nose the Nance dogs have caught my eye as well. The best thing about these Nance dogs is they breed true for that nose and track speed.
The book is just begining on Jeff's new Ace dog. I truely believe that little Ace dog is going to be just as big an influence on the Nance bred dogs as Jeff's old Ace dog was to his old line of grade dogs.
As you know Ace was breed to be a reproducer. With his dad being the Sampson dog, and his mom being Millie, Ace is going to turn alot of heads in the future.

Ace has that physical and mental toughness, as well as the brains, nose, desire, and track speed to go with it. The other thing that little Ace dog has, that is going to make him great, is the breeding and heredity behind him to pass those traits along.

[Mike Leonard]

Josh,

I agree Ace however if I am not mistaken was sired by Sampson out of Millie. Luke was by Topper and Millie. Chassie and Luke are littermates as well as Flirt . Ace, Sammie, Cricket, Jasper and Hondo are out of Sampson. There is another male from this cross as well in California but I can't recall his name.

A person can't emphasize the reproducing ability of this Millie dog enough, and she really marks these pups. Although she is small in stature she is every ounce a bare ground cat dog with amazing qualities and the ability to reproduce well.

Although Jeff does not own Millie he did say he would take a pup out of her even if she got bred to a cow dog. That's how much he believes in her ability to pass on positive traits.LOL!

[festus]

Mike,
You are right Ace is out of Sampson, I was half asleep last night when I wrote that post LOL. We have been talking about Chasse so much lately I have flirt and chasse on the brain LOL.
the other pup in California you are refering to is named Newt. That whole litter out of Sampson and Millie are simply outstanding hounds. That is one of the big reason's I believe Ace is going to be a very dominant reproducer. Jasper is the other male in that litter that I believe is headed for greatness as a reproducer. Ace and Jasper have already proven themselves to be outstanding in hunting ability. I think we are going to see them prove they are very dominant reproducers as well. Millie definately is a proven reproducer. Alot of times the importance of the female gets over looked, but Millie is every bit as dominant a reproducer as Sampson or Topper. These SW Nance dogs we are working on are going to be some dandy's for sure.

[Cold Track]

The Tucker dog is as good as they get and would be a great choice. As for the Grandpa dog, yes unfortunately he is nutless as a result of a bunch of young males that couldn't get along. Too bad about that, if a guy could only see into the future of a dog. Grandpa is out of my female Novi who is out of the old Hank dog and is a full sister to the late great Cindy, and the dad to him was the Slim dog. I gave a full brother to Grandpa to my brother in law which I believe I hunt the dog more than he does, the dog has it all just not the exposure. I keep trying to get him back because he DOES have his nuts , but he's in love with the dog.

[hunt14]

Cold Track,
Mike mentioned that he didnt think Slim was all of Jeff's old line of dogs. Do you know how that dog was bred?

[coldnosed1976]

I have one of the pups out of the 2 females from the Joey cross I think hes the only one alive. He is 12 weeks old and will bay a caged cat and will trail he's gonna be a good one Hunt14 ask JIM B ab out this dog

[high desert hounds]

Speaking of Ace I have a 12 week old pup out of him and jeffs kim dog that is trailing good and starting to work the cage. His ability to trail at such a young age is impressive, but what is most impressive is the brains of this little pup. He takes to everything so quick.