Search and Resuce Question for LCK

[possumpatrol]

I was talking to the Emergency manager in the County I work in and we were talking about people getting lost etc. She was telling me that they had an elderly man that was lost in a block of woods for 4 days. She said they brought in numerous sar dogs and cadaver dogs and none of these dogs were able to track this man. They could see new foot prints every morning from where he was walking during the night and he would hide during the day because he thought he was back in WW II.

I find it hard to believe that trained tracking dogs worth there salt could not pick up a trail that couldn't of been over 10 hours old and most likely a lot fresher. I was wandering if you had ever seen this or if we need some real man tracking dogs in this area??

Thanks,

Jacob

[tman308]

Not real sure about your area but in Arizona I was a State SAR Coordinator for over 3 years. The dogs that were used were owned by individual people so needless to say some dogs were better than others. In AZ the searchers are volunteers. They don't have a lot of time to spend with their dogs so they train them to air scent humans not track. Basically if there is a human downwind they will find them. Now I don't have to tell anyone on here what kind of problems we had with that like wind drift or other human searchers. The problem with the tracking dogs, where I worked, was that the standards for the dog were held extremely high.(as it should be) Volunteers weren't willing to put that much free time into keeping their dogs at those standards so we rarely had tracking dogs on scene. Now the one lady who did have a bona fide tracking dog did a dang good job when she was able to respond.

Just me two cents from my region.

[LCK]

Not real sure about your area but in Arizona I was a State SAR Coordinator for over 3 years. The dogs that were used were owned by individual people so needless to say some dogs were better than others. In AZ the searchers are volunteers. They don't have a lot of time to spend with their dogs so they train them to air scent humans not track. Basically if there is a human downwind they will find them. Now I don't have to tell anyone on here what kind of problems we had with that like wind drift or other human searchers. The problem with the tracking dogs, where I worked, was that the standards for the dog were held extremely high.(as it should be) Volunteers weren't willing to put that much free time into keeping their dogs at those standards so we rarely had tracking dogs on scene. Now the one lady who did have a bona fide tracking dog did a dang good job when she was able to respond.

Just me two cents from my region.

That pretty much summs it up right there. Volunteers and strick standards are kind of like oil and water. They do not mix well. I would say the HUGE majority of SAR dog handlers see their dogs as pets first and tools second or even third.

The scene you described is an absolute shame. Dogs do miss from time to time, even dang good dogs, but as a general rule, a truly trained and capable man finding dog should have found that elderly person in a matter of minutes, regardless of conditions. Unfortunately it is the rule for most half assed trained dogs. I have worked with, trained and handled mantrailing/tracking dogs for over 16 years now. My advantage has been that I have always worked under a Sheriff's Office and not a volunteer organization. I have had to work with several of them though, and have seen first hand the poor excuses for dogs they have.They give a very bad name to an otherwise usefull tool, the dog.

I travel around the country and speak/train at search dog conferences. It is the same story every time. At least 98% of the teams are complete junk. Generally people with big ego's and lots of stickers and patches on their clothes and vehicles. But when it comes time for the dogs to get the job done, it is most often an excuse fest, shortly followed by hurt feelings, tears and tantrums.

Like mentioned before, there are some exceptionally good dogs out there, but unfortunately they are few and far between.

[possumpatrol]

Thank you very much LCK and tman. I appreciate your replys. LCK what kind/breed of dogs do you use for mantraling dogs?

Thanks again,

Jacob

[Emily]

There are two kinds of SAR dogs--air scent tracking, and trailing. Air scent dogs are not usually hounds, but something more manageable like German Shepherds or golden retrievers. Air scent dogs are good for finding people when you don't know where to start.
Mantrailers are usually bloodhounds, but coonhounds are also very good at it. They are better in places where you can pinpoint a location where the person definitely was before they went missing.
There is a lady outside of Kansas City who has a team of redbones with some pretty amazing accomplishments. She has trailed criminals, missing nursing home patients, etc.
The other side of the amateur/pro balancing act is that the professionals rarely take on searches that stretch their dogs' abilities, because of how they are funded. They can't afford to risk failures. Lynn, the redbone lady, who is an amateur dog handler but professional SAR person, has taken on cases that local pros turned down, and succeeded, some with trails WEEKS old.
The problem with teaching coonhounds to mantrail is that most of the groups that can help with training only want bloodhounds involved. It takes a major commitment to handle a trailing dog, and most of the training is for the handler, not the dog. The dogs can do the work pretty effortlessly if the handler is good enough at indicating what is wanted.
If you have any interest in training a hound to mantrail, pm me and I can put you in touch with Lynn. She has an incredible amount of varied and interesting experience, and can tell you all about the joys and pitfalls, and what worked for her.