Trailing ?

[twist]

dont know a whole lot about dry ground hunting but in my are when cat hunting. a dog that has a cold nose must be able to drift beyond the spots were there is more scent and keep the track moving and yes there is times when they just cant get the job done but back to my point is there is alot of so called cold nosed dogs that can keep a canyon filled with noise but never go any where so its not only their nose they have to have the instinct to (DRIFT) past these hang up spots and pick the scent up and keep it moving and this is breed into some dogs learned by some dogs and never learned by some of them. later, Andy

[Ike]

When i get in the middle and try to help the dogs out...sometimes im able to see the track and which direction its going, and I try to hiss the dogs into moving the track from around the track/area...but usually they just ignore me and keep trailing from where they last smelled the scent the best...
So do you guys just pick your pack up and move them in the direction you think the cat is moving in hopes that they can pick it up further down or is this more of a respect and trust issue?

Seldom do I ever walk down a track anymore that my dogs can't move, cause I don't want them gone on a track that may not end or not end until tomorrow or the next day. If I were training pups or young dogs that might change. My pups are taught to come and work the ground when I call and show them a track, and they all do that. If I can see that track I will continue that until they open and take the scent, that is if there is any scent left.

As the weather cools off, a lock-down trail hound will push an old track that often times will out last his endurance, and I don't like coming back tomorrow to pick up dogs whether they are caught or not.

I don't know how many times I've heard a hounddogger say maybe that tom will make a kill or get with a female, and then the track will freshen up. In my experience, that seldom happens and those hounds trail out of the country. If a hunter has road access, and if landownership is not an issue, and if a guy has a client and he needs that tom for harvest, or if a guy just wants to walk along with the dogs and enjoy the hound music then those tracks are OK--but I wish I had a dollar for every track like that I started and didn't get treed. Granted I've pulled my hounds off tons of tracks that may well have been finished in the night, but staying within the laws of the game a person should pull dogs if they can.

As for the comment about cutting ahead and trying to pick up a track, to me that's kind of like losing a blood trail on a buck and then start guessing where he has gone which just about never has worked for me. I've trailed lots of lions and bears and few if any walk the same route or exhibit the same behavior--they may well do the same things but around a different rock pile or tree. Tom lions do tend to line out like they have a purpose or place they are headed, and if you can figure that out you may well jump ahead and pick up the track. However, there is only so much time in a day and if a guy is cutting ahead of a traveling tom he better get lucky quick if it's in the dirt.

It sounds like to me you're doing everything that you should, and if the time comes you can help those dogs do it but know every good hunter also has to have a little lady luck on their side...............

ike

[AZDOGMAN]

Ikes post is right on, imo

[poser]

Bency, just keep after it. Everyone has good advice to follow. Bad thing is we weren't there to see what was exactly goin on. I'd follow everything everyone has said and work your way down the list.

The good thing is different days bring out different opportunities. Sometimes its the dogs that get it done, other times its the trashy guys that have to help figure things out. Most of the time i just get in the way. The more you get out and hunt the better idea you will have on how to help your dogs and get the most out of them. And the other days we just eat humble pie and chalk it up to experience.

[hunt14]

I'm sure with Ike on the lady luck when it comes to these kinds of tracks. However in my country I am not going to pass up a track that my dogs are moving on even if it isnt that fast. Am I gonna catch it? more often than not I wont catch it but you will catch some and valuable lessons are learned during these days in my opinion.

Bency, your dogs sound pretty independent which is a good thing if you ask me, you dont want them leaving the track for anything except for when you call them. With time and and running tracks such as these when you hiss to your dogs and point to the track they will LEARN to trust you and start to come and trail. This is why I get in the middle of it and help out because with some time they learn that when you hiss and point, by hell he's got it over here and come running. I wouldnt hiss and point to much they start relying on you to much in my opinion and when it gets to the point that you are constantly doing that to keep them on track then it is too old. Another thing that I have tried and it has worked is to leave the other dogs pounding away on the track and pick up your best strike dog and take him on a complete cirlce of the track and I have either found it and sent him on his way or he has struck again and off he goes at this point my dogs know who to trust and when they hear him they follow for the most part. Otherwise I will walk back and get them and bring them with me while I am praising the heck out of them for working their guts out.

A year ago I was hunting with Jim Bundrick down on the kaibab. We found a track at about 10 a.m. we had 4 dogs working on it. We followed it for about three hours along the base of some steep ledges and rock walls just walking and helping the dogs out. a good portion of it was in pretty loose sand and the breeze was blowin pretty good. The dogs got hung up many times and three of the dogs kept running back to where they last smelled it and kept trying to move it out only to come to a dead end. One of Jims younger dogs at the time who is his main dog now kept swinging out up ahead and he would hit it and the other dogs would honor him and away they would go at turtle pace again with their tails waggin trying and wanting to move that track faster but to no avail. Finally like I said after three hours and promising to quit the track a hundred times the dogs made another loose and we were going to call them off and head for the truck. Buck got sick of just pounding away and he made another big circle and hit that track up ahead only this time it seemed like he could move it a little faster the other dogs honored him again and they trailed at a pretty good pace up through a saddle (the only way to get on top of the mesa) and treed the lion within an hour. It was a mediocre tom with part of his ears chewed off and some battle scars.

So referring back to my other post. Some dogs have a knack for swinging out and picking up a loose up ahead and bypass the back and forth stuff. Other dogs are so track minded that you cant pry them off that track until it heats up a little and they move out on it.

I am no professional and I dont mean to sound like one just stating my experience. If it can help you out or give you something else to try or think about then great! if not thats ok too just trying to help.

[Ike]

I'll still say if a man is hunting a pack of hounds that are all finished trail dogs he should seldom if ever have to walk down a track with them. Often times a track will get the worst that it's gonna get right before that lion is jumped, but if I have to help a pack of dogs that are three to twelve years old find and move a track that lion is probably gonna get away anyway.

Seven years ago I walked down a melted out, mostly open ground bitch lion track with my LionHeart, Ryan and Choco dogs. It was Choco's first lion trail and about as tough a track as I care to catch. I parked the truck and got in with the dogs just after daylight and was still trailing at 2:30 PM that afternoon, and still right there with those dogs and four drainages away from my truck.

That track left over another cedar ridge and down into another drainage and I remember thinking it was a long ways to the truck--and the bad thing was I just walked over a road that I could have driven down. The puppy in choco started coming out and he quit the two older dogs and came walked beside me. He got a scolding and went back to the hunt, and only minutes later they jumped and treed that lion.

My question is had I not been there would Choco have never left those older dogs or just have quit miles before then? Veteran trail dogs will dig and poke until they are done, and seldom is there anything a man does that changes that.........

Just my thoughts on the deal!

ike

[hunt14]

Ike if you have a good lion population and you dare pass up a track that your dogs are only poking away on then I would probably pass on it to and I do sometimes but if the lions are as scarce as they are where I am from and it means running the dogs on a lion or going home then I will trail on that track everytime, and yes I dont catch alot of them but you will catch a few and you will learn ALOT about your dogs and alot about lion hunting in my opinion, but then again I never know when to quit and I would probably be alot further ahead if I did.

[liontracker]

And the hounds will get better and better.

[Ike]

And they have gotten better and better and better and better over the years! That's why I laugh when people tell me about this great yearling or two year old dog they have, cause like us those hounds get better and smarter with age or they aren't worth a damn. I figure a good lion hound just hits his stride at five or six years of age, and the really great moments in that hounds' life is yet to come. Been trying to teach ol' Choco how to use a cell phone and Spot Check so he can just call me when they get treed or done.........

ike

[bency]

Thanks everyone for contributing and sharring some knowlegde. Lions seem pretty thin around my area, so for that reason i try every track i can...

But for now im just gonna keep beating those tracks, and just go with it.

[bluewalkerlionhound]

Bency. you'ld be so far ahead of the game if you just culled. Don't be afraid of the lead pill....I'll send you a box It'll be cheaper than all the wasted gas. START OVER. I know a guy in Tremonton that has a special line of walker dogs that owes me 4 or 5 pups out of a dog named Novi for my vast nawledge and advice I've given him through the yrs. Let me know big "R" when they are ready to pick up,dont keep me out of the secret loop.ps.Thanks,your dry ground source of nawledge Ryan




Mike, I'll let you know when the videos gets to my place. ps< my book and videos are going through my publisher as I type and will be out to the public in about 2 months..45min dvd $19.95+shipping...

[Cold Track]

BWLH. I will hopefully have a litter out of her in the late spring, early summer. But caution, it will be the same cross as the trash I sold Bency. I don't know if she has too many litters left in her so you'd better come get em when she does. Not that she's super old, but in a few years she will be and I don't have a ton of litters. Just enough to have a pup every year or two out of her, that's what everything I'll have in the future will be built from is her and Zuess, and possibly this mustang trash thing I got out of poser and poco.