want to get into profesional guiding

[mavrick333]

Joe
I understand where you are coming from, But you also have too remember that if that goes through that all the weekend guys will be hunting without a tag!!!!! In some parts of the state where everthing is crowed already, its hard to get a track that is not the same bear that is not already started. Just a thought? I think, that will really hurt the hunting and make things more difficult!!!

[Nolte]

Joe
I understand where you are coming from, But you also have too remember that if that goes through that all the weekend guys will be hunting without a tag!!!!! !!

So what as long as they don't kill the bear. It's already happening anyway. When guys are hunting for just a chase they usually don't spend much time looking for a big bear. Guys with tags usually hunt for a biggest bear they can find.

Should a guide who is hunting on public land for a public critter have more rights or priveledges than a weekend hunter just because he is earning some money on it? He sure shouldn't in my book. If it's that big of a deal, just wait until after the second weekend and hunt during the week. It's much less crowded then, us weekend warriors are probably back trying to make a living.

You know what it takes to be a guide in WI. $40 for a resident and $100 for a nonresident that's it. I've done a few guide deals and have good friends who do it. You sure aren't going to get rich off it. If you scratch out a little bit of your expenses, feel lucky. But then again, most of us weekend warriors will have the same expenses and just do it for the fun of it.

Good guides are great ambassadors for any type of hunting. They do things for the right way and truly care about the resource and the sport. Bad ones care only about the $ and ruin it for all the good ones.

[mavrick333]

I understand, all that! Then why dont they have it open through out the entire season? Its not a big deal eather way! Weekend guy or full time hunter as long as when you are out there you respect the woods the people and the animals everybody should enjoy it!!!

[blackpaws]

Joe
I understand where you are coming from, But you also have too remember that if that goes through that all the weekend guys will be hunting without a tag!!!!! In some parts of the state where everthing is crowed already, its hard to get a track that is not the same bear that is not already started. Just a thought? I think, that will really hurt the hunting and make things more difficult!!!

with the amount of tags being issued now anyways it's not hard to at least have a tag with to run. i am just speaking for the guy that doesn't hunt in a real big group that wants to go hunt on some public land and run his or her dogs. i honestly think that if they would open up the southern half of the state during kill season to run dogs you would have a lot less pressure and over crowding up north. if you can train down there why can't you run during kill season. is it because of Bow hunting? your guess is as good as mine.

[catslayer]

You are right for the most part.We dont tell the client that it is mandatory,just recomended.These are 8 thousand dollar hunts and when a guy comes to do one of these,he can usualy afford a 10% tip.We as guides work our tails off to get these guys on some great animals and when they get there animals and they had a great time then leave us a $50 tip, we tend to not wanna hunt so hard for them the next time they come cause we feel like we did them a good job and they obviously didnt appreciate our job we did for them.We as guides dont make a lot of money.Our boss man the outfitter makes the money,But He is'nt the one that pre scouts the whole summer and finds the good bucks and bulls for the guys that come out.Or the one that runs 50+ bear baits a month before the guys come to hunt.The guide is.We Are entitled to a little bit of compensation for all the hard work we put in to get these critters killed for the guys dont ya think?.Our wages go to feeding our families,and our tips usualy go to feeding our dogs and give us have a little bit of play money.90% of our hunters are return guys.I look at it like this,Say the local coffee shop you get your coffee and bagel from every mornin.If you leave that waitress that is waiting on you hand and foot a penny for a tip,She is probly gonna slow down a bit when it comes to gettin your order out next time ya come in cause she feels like she is workin to hard for you for the amount you are tipping her.make sense?? Im not sayin the tip is everything,but it sure keeps ya happy the whole week when you know the guy you are guiding left ya a good tip last year I am very fortunate that I work for a great paying outfitter(when i work ),but allot of guys arent that lucky.When i first started i could barely feed my dogs and afford gas to go see my family.good tips were awesome to get cause i knew i was ahead and i got to go see them.As far as not bein a confident guide,Well i get paid well for a reason I dont wanna sound cocky,but if you come out and request to go with me or someone else i work with and we guarentee you success before you even unpack your rifle,That is confidents cause i know that i have done my leg work and i can take you to where that critter sleeps,eats,shits,and waters,I would say that is worth somethin right there.Agree?? Or you could go with another guy that promises great things for the same 8 grand and never see a thing cause the guide you are with isnt confident in himself and doesnt get tipped good so he doesnt try hard.We dont hire guys right outta guide school.To work with us they have to guide for a few years with someone else and those outfitters have to give them darn good reviews.Thats why we make 10% to 15% tips cause we are very confident and we do our homework If you are gonna leave a bad tip with your guide then you better book with a new outfit every year cause the guide you stiffed the year before WILL remember you and will talk about you the whole season amongst his guide buddies Just remember that next time ya bring a 20 dollar bill to a $5,000 hunt Anyways,you are right about the manditory quote i left.I should have put recomended.Hope this helps a bit

I think that you need to remember that a TIP is a gratuity given for a ser vice performed at or above the clients expectations. If an outfitter or a guide told me there was a manditory 10% tip i would find a different outfitter. The guide that requires a manditory tip is not confident of his level of ability to succeed. He may also be cutting himself short.

Thanks

Junk

[catdogs]

i work with and we guarentee you success before you even unpack your rifle,That is confidents cause i know that i have done my leg work and i can take you to where that critter sleeps,eats,shits,and waters,I would say that is worth somethin right there.Agree??

That is much more than confidence, that is downright arrogant and BTW illegal in Montana...

Our boss man the outfitter makes the money

During years like this, a lot of guides are making more than the outfitters. If the outfitter has 10 hunters or 20, your bottom line is about the same, but the outfitters is 1/2. I can tell you from experience that if an outfitter is netting half his gross he is doing very well.

[krk hunting]

Catslayer,

I am just trying to say that our society in general has come the concenses that a tip is expected and not earned. I look at it this way, and we may be both on the same page. There are alot of clients that do not know what is normal and customary for tipping ( but dont cut yourself short) I have clients that will pay 20-30 no problem for a hunt that meets or exceeds their expectations. I gues what I am trying to say is nothing pisses me off more than to go into a resturant and have a 15% gratuity put on my bill for a party of 6 or more. When I may have tipped 20% or more, after that I will only pay the 15% on my bill. Not trying to start a pissing match her (It sounds to me that you should become the outfitter to better understand the true income and cost and exposure related to the Buisnes). If your boss is working on a true 50% net profit margn, assuming that the hunts are all in the 8k price he would have to book 250 of thoes hunts per year to net that 1 million dollar figure you threw out there. I dont know anything about your boss's buisness, he probably has a fabulos buisness and customer base, but I highly doubt he his selling an 8k average hunt at 250 of them a year. Just my 2 cents.

Thanks

Junk

[catslayer]

junk,
I didnt mean to come off as sounding pissy.When i first read your reply to my post,it sounded like you were calling me unconfident in my guiding skills.Reading your last post though,I understand what you are saying a bit better.I dont really expect any tip when i first meet a guy and go hunting,but i work hard for one anyways.I do think that if you just tipped my boss 8 grand for having an outfit and some good guides,the least you can do is kick a little down to the guys that work the hardest to get you that trophy critter you have been dreamin about.My boss does book around 60 somethin guys a year for our private ranch (not high fenced) hunt at 8,600 a piece.Thats just the ranches for 3 weeks from oct. 10th till nov. 3rd. Then we do backcountry hunts from sept. 1st till oct. 3rd and usualy run around 30 guys throughout all our camps back there.Those hunts are 4,500.He also runs about 40 to 50 bear hunters at 2,500 each and around 30 or so cat hunters throughout the state and nevada each season at 4,000 each.Thats my favorite season for sure Not sure exactly how he does it but i have seen his net income sheet a time or two and its crazy.I am in the wrong end of this im thinkin Anyways,didnt mean to come off as a dick before...Taker easy

[catslayer]

[Pre scouting aint illegal here in Idaho.I just wanna give the guy who just paid his life savings a great hunt without having to spend the first few days of his hunt scouting We were 100% this year and the last 2 years and that comes from doin allot of lookin before season.I feel that if more guys did that,We wouldnt have such bad reps in the outfitting world and would'nt end up on the bad page of HUNTINFO.com. .quote="catdogs"]

i work with and we guarentee you success before you even unpack your rifle,That is confidents cause i know that i have done my leg work and i can take you to where that critter sleeps,eats,shits,and waters,I would say that is worth somethin right there.Agree??

That is much more than confidence, that is downright arrogant and BTW illegal in Montana...

Our boss man the outfitter makes the money

During years like this, a lot of guides are making more than the outfitters. If the outfitter has 10 hunters or 20, your bottom line is about the same, but the outfitters is 1/2. I can tell you from experience that if an outfitter is netting half his gross he is doing very well.[/quote]

[Steve White]

Joe
I understand where you are coming from, But you also have too remember that if that goes through that all the weekend guys will be hunting without a tag!!!!! !!

So what as long as they don't kill the bear. It's already happening anyway. When guys are hunting for just a chase they usually don't spend much time looking for a big bear. Guys with tags usually hunt for a biggest bear they can find.

Should a guide who is hunting on public land for a public critter have more rights or priveledges than a weekend hunter just because he is earning some money on it? He sure shouldn't in my book. If it's that big of a deal, just wait until after the second weekend and hunt during the week. It's much less crowded then, us weekend warriors are probably back trying to make a living.

You know what it takes to be a guide in WI. $40 for a resident and $100 for a nonresident that's it. I've done a few guide deals and have good friends who do it. You sure aren't going to get rich off it. If you scratch out a little bit of your expenses, feel lucky. But then again, most of us weekend warriors will have the same expenses and just do it for the fun of it.

Good guides are great ambassadors for any type of hunting. They do things for the right way and truly care about the resource and the sport. Bad ones care only about the $ and ruin it for all the good ones.

I must have missed a post that got deleted. Form the gist of the first part of the quote believe I know what it was about. If it was the opening of the bear harvest season in WI To training. I don't much care for it. Although I understand that folks do just want to hunt their dogs. Yet in this state where it takes so long to get a tag. it can be a disappointment as it is for tag holders to have to compete in the heavily pressured areas. Yet this is a topic for a whole different thread, and I will leave it alone now.

Nolte, you are right as for what the license cost is to be a guide in WI. Some believe that is all it takes. It results in what I call the flannel shirt syndrome. Guys having these dillusions of granduer about suddenly making a living as a guide in WI. More often than not becoming very poor ambassador's for the sport, and true guides. There are far more greater costs involved. Not sure how the western guides have to do it. Here I carry my own insurance. Out west the outfitter may cover this. Can only imagine the cost of it out there. Here my cost this year was just over $3200. That does not include, my boat, my truck, or anything else. Just the guiding insurance. Not to take anything away from the pleasure hunters, or weekend warriors as it has been called. Perhaps night right to call them that. Yet, like Catslayer has said. There is a lot of work that has to go into making sure your clients are happy and expectations fullfilled when they arrive. Extra scouting, extra baiting where applicable. Increased amount of gear to cover the guests. True a hard core hunter is going to do a lot of this work as well to the benifit of their free time. A guide has to do it to the benifit of their job. If you want to be a guide you do not have the luxury of staying in becasue the weather may not be good. You need to go regardless of conditions. I bet if you were to start asking you will find that as many as 8 of 10 guides in WI do not carry insurance. WOuld bet this goes up on the hunting side.

Everyone does have equal right to be in the woods, or on the water enjoying the sport. I can see where some guides may get defensive of areas due to the livelyhood issue.

In most cases though you will not get rich. Most of the time just eek out a living below poverty level. Yet, this is a lifestyle. An enjoyable one if you have the stomach for being poor at doing what you love.

Tips are great. Do I expect them no. Do I mind them heck no! I believe in my own humble way. My biggest tip from anyone is their satisfaction. Nothing is more rewarding to me than for you to catch that fish of a lifetime. To bag that game you have sought after. Much bigger than a tip, is repeat business. Word of mouth advertising that comes from your satisfaction. What good is a 10-20% tip if you do not come back, or tell your friends.

The little money most of us guides make. May not allow us to take fancy vacations. Retire early, or even go out to dinner 1 night a week. Yet most of the time we enjoy what we are doing, even when broke!

[catslayer]

Well said Steve.It is a rewarding feeling to have a guy really happy at the end of his hunt cause you got him his trophy.It is also a good feeling when they hand ya a wad of cash and bring 5 of their friends back the next year cause they had such a good time with you.As far as gettin rich,Well you are right about that for sure.Its more of a lifestyle than a get rich quick job,but i wouldnt want it any other way I would much rather live below the poverty level and love what i am doin then bein rich and hating getting up each morning and havin to punch a clock It is also nice bein able to hunt so much cause instead of keepin dogs around for a long time and hunting them on the weekends to try and figure out if they are gonna make it or not,you get to cut that time in half cause you are out every day and ya get paid in the process saves on dog food for sure Anyways,well said.Oh and the outfitter does pay insurance out here along with guide licenses for the guys too.We virtualy have no expenses when we are hunting.just copenhagen and whatever other bad habits we may have picked up along the way Pretty good gig i must say

Joe
I understand where you are coming from, But you also have too remember that if that goes through that all the weekend guys will be hunting without a tag!!!!! !!

So what as long as they don't kill the bear. It's already happening anyway. When guys are hunting for just a chase they usually don't spend much time looking for a big bear. Guys with tags usually hunt for a biggest bear they can find.

Should a guide who is hunting on public land for a public critter have more rights or priveledges than a weekend hunter just because he is earning some money on it? He sure shouldn't in my book. If it's that big of a deal, just wait until after the second weekend and hunt during the week. It's much less crowded then, us weekend warriors are probably back trying to make a living.

You know what it takes to be a guide in WI. $40 for a resident and $100 for a nonresident that's it. I've done a few guide deals and have good friends who do it. You sure aren't going to get rich off it. If you scratch out a little bit of your expenses, feel lucky. But then again, most of us weekend warriors will have the same expenses and just do it for the fun of it.

Good guides are great ambassadors for any type of hunting. They do things for the right way and truly care about the resource and the sport. Bad ones care only about the $ and ruin it for all the good ones.

I must have missed a post that got deleted. Form the gist of the first part of the quote believe I know what it was about. If it was the opening of the bear harvest season in WI To training. I don't much care for it. Although I understand that folks do just want to hunt their dogs. Yet in this state where it takes so long to get a tag. it can be a disappointment as it is for tag holders to have to compete in the heavily pressured areas. Yet this is a topic for a whole different thread, and I will leave it alone now.

Nolte, you are right as for what the license cost is to be a guide in WI. Some believe that is all it takes. It results in what I call the flannel shirt syndrome. Guys having these dillusions of granduer about suddenly making a living as a guide in WI. More often than not becoming very poor ambassador's for the sport, and true guides. There are far more greater costs involved. Not sure how the western guides have to do it. Here I carry my own insurance. Out west the outfitter may cover this. Can only imagine the cost of it out there. Here my cost this year was just over $3200. That does not include, my boat, my truck, or anything else. Just the guiding insurance. Not to take anything away from the pleasure hunters, or weekend warriors as it has been called. Perhaps night right to call them that. Yet, like Catslayer has said. There is a lot of work that has to go into making sure your clients are happy and expectations fullfilled when they arrive. Extra scouting, extra baiting where applicable. Increased amount of gear to cover the guests. True a hard core hunter is going to do a lot of this work as well to the benifit of their free time. A guide has to do it to the benifit of their job. If you want to be a guide you do not have the luxury of staying in becasue the weather may not be good. You need to go regardless of conditions. I bet if you were to start asking you will find that as many as 8 of 10 guides in WI do not carry insurance. WOuld bet this goes up on the hunting side.

Everyone does have equal right to be in the woods, or on the water enjoying the sport. I can see where some guides may get defensive of areas due to the livelyhood issue.

In most cases though you will not get rich. Most of the time just eek out a living below poverty level. Yet, this is a lifestyle. An enjoyable one if you have the stomach for being poor at doing what you love.

Tips are great. Do I expect them no. Do I mind them heck no! I believe in my own humble way. My biggest tip from anyone is their satisfaction. Nothing is more rewarding to me than for you to catch that fish of a lifetime. To bag that game you have sought after. Much bigger than a tip, is repeat business. Word of mouth advertising that comes from your satisfaction. What good is a 10-20% tip if you do not come back, or tell your friends.

The little money most of us guides make. May not allow us to take fancy vacations. Retire early, or even go out to dinner 1 night a week. Yet most of the time we enjoy what we are doing, even when broke!

[Nolte]

I may be in the minority here, but I believe that money will be the undoing of our hunting sports. Anytime that $ gets involved (in anything) it blurs the lines of right/wrong. Many times the guys with the most $ to throw around are the biggest A-holes out there who whine the most.

I have a hard time stomaching the idea that someone is more "deserving" of a trophy because they can flop down the cash to hire someone to do the work for them. I get the same feeling when someone shows up in our kill season with a tag, when they haven't spent one day with us in training season. Or they haven't done any of the boatloads of work to make a hunt succesfull. I understand that not everyone is as dedicated as others, but I'm a firm believer that you get out of something what you put into it.

I realize that a lot of guides do a great job providing a service for people that would never take part in the activity if they didn't hire someone. The majority of people don't have the gear or knowledge to travel across the country and to take part in a hunt/fish trip. I think it's great that peple get to experience all sorts of our different outdoor sports. But don't expect me endorse any regulations that favor guides or feel bad for the wages earned or expenses involved.

[blackpaws]

i can understand to a certain extent about wanting to guide for a living. i have thought about it myself but i didn't think i could make a good enough living at doing it and plus i would have lost a lot of friends along the way. where we hunt there is a guide that pretty much kills every bear they run. some are darn near too small to be legal. he is in it for the money only because you can tell he won't run big bear in fear of having to pay vet bills. he runs mostly small bear that should tree easier. i am not saying every guide is this way but like Nolte said when there is money involved it is a whole new game.

For the guides in the state i can see why you wouldn't want training open during the kill season because there is money involved and why would you want other people out there running a bear you could possibly get killed for your client. But, i will bet that the moajority of the weekedn warriors are the ones down at the bear hunter's convention spending some of their cash to help fight to keep our sport open in this state. i have been down there for many years and it always amazes me that there are not more donations from any guides in the state. i am not saying there isn't any but you never see any guided hunts donated or even just a cash donation. i have the book of donations from last year and not very many guides on there.

what needs to happen in they need to open the souther part of the state during kill season if people think it's over crowded.