Colorado is looking at putting in female subquotas

[johnnie hamilton]

I will start by saying I have hunted lions over 20 plus years and I will be one of the first to tell you I have harvested female lions both as an outfitter and personally. I have personally harvested a female lion in Colorado 5 years ago. I was training young dogs and when I treed her in late March you could see every rib on her along with her hip bones. She was aged at over 10 years old. I hunt the southeast corner of Colorado that is made up of mostly private ranches. I do not go out and harvest every female that I come across,but as a biologist every species we manage needs to have some female takes.
When we harvest elk cows late in the year they are bred and have very well formed calves inside them. So I get tired of hunters and environmentalist saying that female lions are the only ones we harvest that could have kittens.

To get to our main problem in the state. When outfitters and everyday houndsmen hunt public land be it state, blm, or national forest we do not know what the other hunters have harvested. You must call in and find out if a unit is closed but they will not tell you how many females have been harvested in that area. I can tell you I do not see enough of Colorado houndsmen at our Wildlife Commission Meetings. I can also tell you we are looking at probably 100% chance that when they change the new regulations it will have a female subquota. The commission personally asked the houndsmen of Colorado and the visiting houndsmen from other states to keep our female harvest in certain units below 40% and we are not doing that. To make matters worse every commission meeting that takes place has a group of environmentalist. It used to be defenders of wildlife and SINUPU. They have now formed a new group called Forest Guardians. They are putting a push out their to pass a law that the outfitters that hunt public lands will be put into a draw and you will only get to hunt the year your business is drawn. I wish we would make a better effort to control female intakes in public lands. I know if you are the only outfitter or houndsmen on private you have a better feel for the number of lions on the ranch and what they can sustain as a female harvest. Personally I like leaving a few of my females around. I know that way I will have some future lions to hunt and the females seem to bring the big toms in to see them.

I am not going to blame anyone for harvesting a female lion if done properly. The problem is we do not communicate with other hunters to make sure we are doing our job. They started a subquota on females in New Mexico and a lot of that state was closed within a month to six weeks.

[FullCryHounds]

Johnie, You've missed a few posts. Read this one we had going a week or so ago.
viewtopic.php?f=42&t=13258

Also, You can see the running total on how many females and toms are being taken out of each unit. Here's the link. I think it's updated along with the phone message. Just click on '2009/2010 interim statistics'.

http://wildlife.state.co.us/Hunting/Mou ... tatistics/

[johnnie hamilton]

Dean, I read the post you all had going. It amazed me nobody wanted to admit harvesting the females. If people went to the commission meetings they would see that we have several new commissioners that are not going to be as easy to keep it the way it was. Wendy from forest guardian is now relocated back to Boulder and they are pushing the sub-quotas and pushing for the outfitters to be drawn by year. This could get interesting if we do not let the commissioners know how we feel.

[FullCryHounds]

The whole idea behind having outfitters get drawn every year is so they go out of business when they don't draw. That's not too hard to figure out. Isn't that how you see it?
What do you think about the subquota on females in those units that everyone isn't self policing themselves? Either we come up with a way to do it that works better for us or we'll have it crambed down our throats by the Forest Guru's. Any ideas?

[pegleg]

how many people would pay a additional fee per female harvested willingly? if upon check out you had to pay double or more the original tag fee. do you think A. people would admit the harvest or not B. would this slow female harvest in your opinion. it would obviously have no real effect on guides themselves. And may be very attractive to the game commission as a source of added revenues. it would also be a point for houndsmen in public debate as proof your willing to govern your sport on your own with money being of lesser importance to maintaining your target species and sport.

[liontracker]

Dean, The interim kills are not updated on a timely basis. I have to call my local biologist to get a current update.

Also, There must be alot of money in anti hunting non profits. Here are a few that I know of that Wendy has started recently.

1. Sinipu
2. Wild Earth Guardians
3. Large Carnivore Institute
4. Forest Guardians

I wonder if she is making enough money yet!

[johnnie hamilton]

Dean, I feel there are some of the units across the state that will need a subquota. I know of one outfitter that ran 20 plus hunters and was harvesting anything his dogs treed. I will also let you all know two commission meetings ago the director came in and gave a speech on how he wanted to put sterility drugs on the books. He told everybody in the room that this was going to be the new way to manage wildlife in the near future. Luckily it was voted down 5-4. All I know if we want our kids and grandkids to enjoy what we have we need to do our part. Show up at commission meetings and try to cut back on some of the units getting over harvested on females.

[liontracker]

The Director is holding a public office and as such, should not be opposed to everyone knowing his name. Who was it. Apger?

And yes, all we had to do was police ourselves.
I thought the majority of us Colorado lion hunters were better than "the fox in the henhouse"?

[johnnie hamilton]

The director is Remington and he was the one that gave the speech. It will be interesting to watch the new commissioners that the gov. appointed.

[FullCryHounds]

I like peglegs idea of somehow charging more for females. Not sure how to implement something like that. Maybe subquotas are the best way to deal with this. Any others ideas you guys?

I was at the office in Denver yesterday checking in a cat and talked to Casey Westbrook. His area is out east now and he said they are very close to opening up the eastern plains as one big unit with a high quota for lions. He said they don't want them out there. I told him, I've got thousands of acres out there and guys calling me every year saying they found a track. Open it up and I'll go! These hills are getting bigger every year!!

[johnnie hamilton]

Dean I agree with you on the mtns getting bigger. They are wanting more lions out east harvested but I which they would give us the last spring and summer months. It hardly ever snow out east and the hard frost on the ground can kill you dry ground hunting. Late March is my puppy training month out east.

[liondog970]

We have bigger problems than female subquota's boys, the lion study they are doing over here in my neck of the woods is being run by the same man that shut down the lion hunting in Califoria. The way I see it we have four more years to hunt with dogs if he has it his way. There are four more years left in the study. I killed two lions in the study units, both toms, when I checked them in he got teary eyed, he wont outright say it but he is on the other team, plus his wife is one of the leaders of PEDA in the state of colorado. What can we do about it? On the other hand since the lion test has been put in place the harvest of female lions has went down 60%, so it sounds like some are triing.

[Big Mike]

Logan is definitely an anti when it comes to lion hunting. He tried the same after the study in NM. It baffles why Game and Fish agencies who operate from hunter dollars hire freakn anti's to do there studies! Hmmm think his data will be a little bias?!!!!!

[liondog970]

What can we do about it? Been to alot of the meetings they dont care what we think! Its all about making the tree huggers happy. I wish people would just open their eyes and look at the effect shutting it down has had on Califoria

[liontracker]

Logan stood in front of me, only 15 feet away, at a meeting in Alamosa Colorado, and told the whole room that in his opinion, lions should not be hunted...period. I called him on his bogus juvenile lion recruitment numbers he was using and you know what he said? " Well, I am not a mathematician". This was only a few months before the study was started. What can we do? Ever wonder why the Anti's are so successful at getting their way? It is called LAWSUIT. I swear, all we hunters have to do, is sue the State for hiring such a leftwing anti to do such a biased study and fradulently managing OUR wildlife, that WE spent so much time and money "CONSERVING". Hunters write the checks. Without us, Game and Fish would be flipping burgers at McDonalds. All we have to do is get our tail out from between our leggs and use the POWER of our money.

Screw Politically correct all the way to hell! It is just another tool being used by the extreme left. Politically correct my ass....