A Nasty Kick

[Brent Sinclair]

This lion was treed after it had killed a couple of Llamas...It looked healthy and was in good condition.
It got the killing done very effectivly with little evidence of a struggle from the llama.
Both canines were broke off at the gum line.
Likely got kicked buy a moose or an elk..maybe a llama!!!

[Mike Leonard]

In our area about 55-60% of the ungulates preyed on by lions are elk. Of that number I would say close to 80% are calves ranging in age from 2-12 months of age. Although adult lions are fully capable of killing adult elk it seems that they generally prefer younger ones. I think part of this is the ease with which they can be approached and also they do not have to worry so much about dragging and hiding the heavy carcasses of adults.
In higher elevations and during the colder months is when we usually find more adult elk killed and generally they are fed upon very near the spot where they are brought down.I don't find adult toms spending a great deal of time at any of these kill sites even though there is considerable meat left on the carcass. Usually if they are buried it is hap hazard in fashion compared to the tidy job a female lion does.
During these kills which many times seem to happen on steep declines we have observed where they elk has done some thrashing and floundering and even rolling with the lion attached and this very well could account for some broken teeth and bones as they smash againt rocks and trees.Lions are no doubt killed at times during these encounters as has been noted by lions wearing GPS collars in recent studies.Female and sub adult cougars make up a higher percentage of the deer kills and also mesocarnivores such as coyotes, racoons and fox.I have never noted a coyote killed by a tom lion unless it was already in a trap although i am sure they do kill them when they need some quick energy on a long walk. Tom lions do however seem to have the usual passion for skunks and porcupines, and often will be caught smelling like a skunk and having a few quills left in them.


It's a pretty hard life out there but cougars certainly are at the top of the food chain in most areas.

[Oren]

Here's a lion a friend of mine took a couple of years ago it had been kicked earlier in life, teeth were worn down but the one canine tooth was 21/4 long being still hooked to the gum line. Interesting picture thought you guys might enjoy. Thanks Carnell

[jeff]

Cool pics guys & some good info Mike, thanks,

Oren,
I think that lion has some sabortooth tiger in its family tree somewhere

[Brent Sinclair]

It has always amazed me how a lion can servive some of the injuries we see they get from hunting elk etc.
They have to take a beating even by a deer not to mention some of the kill sites I have found and retraced the trail to where the lion had actualy caught an elk.
Branches as big as my forarm broke off and hair every where, it has to cause some serious brusing and possible broken bones...but their teeth don't mend to well!!!!!
Then you see a cat with teeth like these that do not line up in his jaw bite...we collared this young tom a few weeks ago, and so far he has scavenged every thing he is eating from what we can tell so far.
He was on a domestic yearling carcass when we caught him initialy, and returned to it 3 weeks later and stayed on what the coyotes had left for another 4 days before moving off..
It will be very interesting to gather the data on his kill sites and what he is living on .
Then there is this old female , with worn and broken teeth yet she is a very effecient deer killer!!!!

[chilcotin hillbilly]

Cool photos Brent, thanks for sharing.

[Mike Leonard]

xcellent stuff Amigo and thanks for the smoke signal. Al and I were horseback today when we read it coming over the ridge from Pincher Creek to New Mexico via the sky.

Ever think about how lions kills these critters without their big long sharp canines? I did and studied for a long while after catching some that were really impaired in my view. The shape of the mouth and the spacing oc the teeth of the cougar make it work as a constrictor over the windpipe of average ungulated that it preys upon. So rather than sharp teeth cutting thru the vertabre it is soldid pressure underneath that closes off the wind pipe and sops oxigen going to the brain. At times with not even a sign of a fang mark or blood.
Yes with deer and samller prey usually the spine is seperated by a crushing bite with anvil shaped or wedge shaped teethe that seperate the discs. It falls and then the cat spirals to the windpipe to stop the breathing. In larger animals usually the bite on the pipe is the first bite and then it is hang in there baby and wait for them to fall. They will fall and these old broken canined felids continue to stay pretty healthy.

[KattTraxx]

We took an old, old tom this year that had some significant dental problems. If someone who knows how to post pictures will let me know their e-mail address, I will send the picture to them so they can put it up here. It makes you wonder how bad it has to be before it affects their ability to survive. So, if someone can help, please let me know. Thanks, KattSkatt..

[houndnhorse]

Here ya go Jeff, this is one old cat.

[KattTraxx]

Thanks for the help in posting the above picture Mike. I still don't get a lot of this computer stuff.

This old tom was one we caught this year, and he was a big solid old tom. Square looking head with an old face clear full of character. It surprised me as I skinned him out to find and inch or two of FAT on most of his body. Even with teeth in that condition, he was eating pretty well through the cold winter months. Made me wonder how he could even eat meat, with not one single cainine tooth in his head. He was in great shape though, and he still thought he was big man on campus. As we trailed him up the last ridge before we caught him, he had scraped and scratched every few yards over the last while. He wasn't bashful or disabled at all.

Another consideration in this cat's situation, he was missing a few toes (3) on one front foot. He had obviously been in a trap or two in his life. I believe he had done some of the damage to his dentures by biting the trap and chain before he pulled out. It was an old, old injury to his foot, so it had been some time since the incident and he was still in remarkable shape. So, here is an old tom, with extenuating circumstances on his dental plan, still making a living just fine until those barking, noisy, slobberin old hounds come along.. Another testament to the adaptability and the pure survival skills of our cougars. Ya gotta love and respect an animal like that.. KattKrapp..

P.S. just for fun, left click on the picture and look at it in a bigger format.. Make ya want to take 2 Tylenol and call your dentist.. Ouch..

[pegleg]

all i gotta say is damn that had to hurt. multiply impactions shit I'm surprised he didn't walk around mauling everything in his path just to vent. must have been a small game specialist or learned to break the neck physically. african lions come real close to doing it on larger game. to bad you couldn't see him get it done.

[Brent Sinclair]

There has been some very interesting photo's posted here so far of lions that have shown real serious tooth conditions, yet they seem to remain effecient at killing and surviving, thanks for sharing them.
As Mike Leonard has pointed out ,does a lion need to have a full set of canines to be an effective deer or elk killer???
His remarks are very factual and they shed some light on the method that may be used more than we think...suffication!!!
I saw a photo that a young fella here in Alberta took last winter of a small female that he watched kill a muley doe from his living room window on their lawn!!!!
The doe was feeding on some new green chutes in a flower bed under the window, as Ben looked out the lion sprang from under their deck and within 2 seconds was completely upside down and had her jaws locked deep onto the deers wind pipe...no blood, it used it's back legs to knock the doe off ballance and was laying under her locked on to the deers throat.
It had the deers head turned back and over its shoulder and intent on keeping her grip....Ben ran for his camera... a quality Nikon and walked to within 10 feet of the lion and deer on the lawn.
The photo's are something to see, the cat never moved and after several photos were taken ,Ben moved off and went back into the house.
He figured it took the doe about 10 minutes before it quit moving totaly, the last was a small flick of it's tail...
The lion then dragged the deer over the bank 30-40 yards and fed on it for 6 days...several additional photos were aquired over that time of course...
They are worth a few $ to the right magazine so I did not ask him for one to post here.
Now with that said, here is a lion I took for a client this Jan.
A big mature tom 4-5 years old that has the longest, slenderest and sharpest canines I have ever seen, they were curved in at the tips. genetics, diet, never caught in a trap???
Several questions and answers can be written on this topic I'm sure...
Good Huntin everyone.
Brent

[liontracker]

Sabertooth Genes!LOL
I always investigate every lion kill I come across. I have noticed that in my area, when a lion kills an antlered elk it is by strangulation. I think they learn the hard way to stay clear of those horns. Antlers may be the reason for some of those broken teeth?