how many cats does it take?

[DerekE]

In another post the subject comes up about some hunters in some areas catching many more cats than seem possible to other folks. That brings up the question, how many cats does it take to make a cat dog? I think like everything else, this answer will be different in different parts of the country. For instance, many dogs will never see as many cats as a dog from areas where they are abundant like say, south TX. In areas where the races are shorter does it take more cats than where the races are longer? So for your area, with your type of hunting and your type of dogs, how many cats does it take? Just something to discuss.
Derek

[lionhunterdaves]

I think it just depends on the dog. I've had dogs that take to it after seeing one or two cats and start doing it on their own, not many but a few. I've had others that see thirty or forty cats before they are ready to do it on their own. And some dogs don't ever do it on their own. I think for a dog to be considered a cat dog it must be able to start a track, trail it until jumped, locate and tree by itself, and be able to do it consistently.

[coastrangecathunting]

I think the question is what is your interpitation of a cat dog. I think that most of the people on here have never seen a real cat dog. Im not bragging or trying to piss anyone off. In my opion just because a dog runs bobs and can catch one once in awile does not make them a cat dog. A cat dog catches cats period . For example i have been catching around 30 percent for the last 10 years with dogs that some people would call cat dogs but to me they are just decent dogs. Not one of them would i call a allaround cat dog. There are alot of things that are envoled in making a cat dog but the you first have to have the dog with the ability and the desire. Then you have to have a person that can develope those skills. They need to be put on cats . In the country i hunt in i would say at least 100 cat trees . before you could say this dog is making a desent cat dog. When you are more suprised when you dont catch a cat than when you are when you do . you have a cat dog . This is where i live so thats my 2 cents.

jc

[pegleg]

it's a life time of learning. to me a dog must have been on enough cats to know what where and how to do it. so it depends on the hounds learning curve to some extent. I know vague. however some aspects of hounding are vague. if a hound in my area has thirty catches he's well on the way.

[lionhunterdaves]

Coastrange,
I know the meaning of a true cat dog, not because I've read about it or saw it on tv. Its because I have one, if he doesn't catch what you turn him loose on something is wrong. He can get it done in the dirt or the snow, doesn't matter. I hunt with a couple of guys that have more than one of these type of dogs. They will also smoke a bear. Don't know if we get lucky on 20 to 30 lions in the snow and another 20 to 30 in the dirt, and not sure of the # of bob's but we do alright most years, or maybe we have a couple of true cat dogs?

[Dads dogboy]

Folks, DerekE has brought up a good topic!

Mr. Pete Richardson, sometime back hit on this quite well (as he usually does) on another topic by pointing out that the different regions, due to Climate, Conditions and regulations have to have different expectations. He stated something to the effect that for a Hound to have "caught" or been in on the catching of 50 or so Cat, in his country, the Hound would have to be 10 years old.

JC wrote " before you could say this dog is making a desent cat dog. When you are more suprised when you dont catch a cat than when you are when you do . you have a cat dog". this would be a pretty good rule to live by. Dads assocaite Glen Rybard said much the same thing Tuesday night, "Now when I go I expect to catch a Cat not just Hope to".

For us here in the Southeastern US a good rule is the one Dad uses, a Hound needs to be 4 years old to have expierenced enough Cat to be able to regularly solve the riddles a Cat can throw the Hounds way in the VARIED SCENTING CONDITIONS THAT WILL ARISE!

Again back to the saying that as long as a Hound suites the man buying the feed that is all that matters.

(now to stir the pot) I have my doubts that any combination Hound, that is one of these Bear, Lion, Coon, Bobcat or Grey Fox/Bobcat Hounds are ever TRUE Bobcat Hounds as the disciplense and protocalls are too different for each Game animal to be consitantly effective on Bobcat. The old adage "Jack of all trades...Master of none" comes to mind. There is the occasional "Freak" who comes along and will catch every critter it is put on...but to us that ain't a Cat Hound.

Good Topic Derek lets see who says what?

CJC

PS. Every good hunter we know can tell you exactly the number of Cat caught, treed, and run, even those who may have escaped. Usually with the weight of the Cat and a synopsis of the Race. Where caught, struck, by whom and the Hounds particapating. The Good Hunters all keep a Journal, this helps in monitoring Game's ebbs and flows and Hound evaluations. JMT!

[spruce mountain]

I think that % is probably a fairer way than numbers when deciding who has a cat dog.If you have a dog that jumps 100 cats in a season and catches 30 of them,isn't that the same succes rate as the dog that jumps 10 and catches 3?I do agree that the dogs that are run just on cats should be a notch ahead of dogs that are run on other game.In my opinion,for what its worth, if your dog is catching bobcats and most other guys around you are just running bobcats,you have a catdog.JMO

[floridacathunter]

Hey CJC, I believe I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with your statment about all good cat hunters keeping a journal or record of their hunts. In the past 60+ years of being around cat hunters and cat hounds I've enjoyed knowing and hunting with several real outstanding cat hunters. Besides you and Mr Clay, I've only known 2 others that kept any kind of records. One group only keep up with the number they had killed. The other man worked on a 60,000 acre ranch, for rich man who Turkey hunted. This man was the game man on this ranch,he was also a real cat hunter. The rich man paid him to hunt every day to cat hunt( that would be better than hitting the lotto) so he wanted to keep a record. Most of these other men would probably hold this information as secret as the number of cows a rancher has or how much money they had in the bank. I believe they might have thought some one might think they were bragging or maybe it just was'nt nobodys business. This is not to say they could'nt tell you bark for bark, and pickup for pickup about a cat race that happened 20 yrs ago. Please don't think I'm against keeping a journal or record, for each his own. We all seem to really enjoy this forum,its stories, and pictures, but we probably should carefully consider any posts regarding numbers of cats taken and we should be extra careful about pictures. One pict. of dogs on a coyote was one prime factor in this.I'll hush now

[floridacathunter]

Hey that last part didn't make sense. A woman took a picture of some hounds on a "yote" in a foxpen , this triggered an "anti" effort that resulted in all fox pens in Florida being closed. We hope temporarily, but who knows. At this meeting,the chairman of the Game Commission was quoted as saying "if it was up to me alone, I would stop all dog hunting in Fl today".Fellow houndsmen, the antis have their eyes upon us, lets be careful to not let them have any "ammo" to use against our great sport. I'll Sho nuff hush now

[liontracker]

I have been trying to get a handle on how to end this Hunting vs antihunting debate since the "Guns of Autumn" was aired on CBS in 1972. In my mind the root problem is that most US citizens are 2 & 3 generations removed from the farm. That's just fine as I would rather they be housed like rats in High rises and tiny lot subdivisions, rather than urban sprawl take up any more of our pricelees farmland. However, it should be mandatory that every man, woman and child in the US, be sent to a farm and "kill" and butcher their own animal and eat it. This would put a reality check on this whole issue.
Hunting is killing and someone has to kill for the rest to eat. The way the free speach is being tested, President bashing, sex on TV and movies ect., ect., ect. Everthing is fair game. Fact is, the truth hurts.


As for how many cats make a cat dog? One cat, if the the dog is good enough.
Seems like cats don't make cats dogs, as much as cat breed does.

[DerekE]

I guess I could have asked, of all the bobcat dogs you've seen, how much experience did they have before you would have called them finished?
I wouldn't want to try to make a good cat dog without a strong cat breeding foundation but even the best blooded dogs must be trained and I would say that making a dog with one cat may be asking a little much, IMO. Good cat dogs are not born but potential cat dogs are. Training and experience brings out the potential, if it's was there to begin with.
Derek

[liontracker]

Derek, my best cat dog was started on cats at 12 months, was "made" at 16 months and about 15-20 cats, finished at 2 yrs. and by then was a machine.

[DerekE]

Well I'm certainly no expert and I'm not arguing. Just trying to spark a discussion I would be interested in reading about. Sounds like a good dog.
Derek

[liontracker]

I would say she was an exception and the areas I hunted her, were for the most part, higher in ground moisture than true dryground like is found in parts of Arizona. I would think 50-75 cats would finish most top prospects?

[Riverbottom]

I got my first coon hound when I was just a kid. Coons were worth good money then and I hunted hard. I killed lots of coon those first few years. I could tell you at any time excatly how many.

As I got more experience, I started paying more attention to how good my dogs were. Numbers weren't important anymore. I left most of the coon in the trees. I had no idea how many. I didn't care. How they got put in the tree was what mattered.

Now, when I meet someone with hounds and the first thing they tell me is how many coon (or rabbits, or bobcats, or coyotes, or...) they have killed, unless they are a young kid just getting started with hounds, I kind of politely excuse myself from their company.

How many cats does it take to make a good dog? If you are counting then you probably won't get to find out.