Competition Hounds

[Redwood Coonhounds]

I have a two of the coldest big game dogs I've been around in a long time. One is a NiteCh, and the other is on his way to that title. The second is actually colder nosed, and is a better coondog than my old bitch. They are from competition stock. Both have caught more bears ALONE than most peoples whole packs do in a year... I don't hunt back east. These dogs wouldn't win a nite hunt back east. But for the West coast they do fine. No one hunts hot nosed, slick treeing babbling idiots out here. Like me, everyone's good coondog, is also used on some type of other game, typically bear, fox and/or cats.

If you have a top beardog, there is no reason you shouldn't be able to go out and tree a coon. We're not talking about taking "Flavor of the Month" out and making a real beardog out of it.

[Nolte]

Competition dogs n biggame hounds shouldn't even be mentioned in the same sentence.

Completely agree for the Midwest. I've had this discussion before, but I know of exactly 0 guys in our area who catch a fair amount of game that use their best start dogs also as coon dogs. I know it's done in other areas fine but it just doesn't work here, at least not for me.

On the same token, guys from out west are baffled how us Midwest guys can run our best bear start dog on yotes in the winter. I think our view of coon is similar to theirs of yotes.

No one hunts hot nosed, slick treeing babbling idiots out here. Like me, everyone's good coondog, is also used on some type of other game, typically bear, fox and/or cats.

If you have a top beardog, there is no reason you shouldn't be able to go out and tree a coon. We're not talking about taking "Flavor of the Month" out and making a real beardog out of it.

Not many big game guys do here either. No idea on the hunts, only been to one in my life. Most big game guys don't hunt coon, or if they do they use a dog that's bear broke or youngs ones. Coon hunting for most is more of a filler or training. It just opened now and gets pretty slow by Thanksgiving, then doesn't perk back up til about April right before our leash law is in effect. So you basically get 2 mos or less of coon hunting while you can chase bear for 3 and snow hunt yote/cats for 3-4 mos depending on snow.

I do agree though that the influence of the hunts has made it's way to the dogs. Stuff that helps win hunts ain't worth a damn in a big game hound. Unless a coon hound is tested to the stuff a big game hunter needs, you don't really know if it's in there.

[Tbblue]

I've seen a lot of hounds from other states that r top hounds in there environment ( mostly thick bear) that don't make the cut here in our well managed thin bear country of michigan that I hunt in.lol There is probably many states that u can run ur coon dogs on bear with success.
I don't hunt with any1 that coon n bear with same dogs. I know a guy that has spent thousands of dollars the last few years on hounds from Cali. That were top hounds cold trail,rig, caught lots of bears by themselves. N virginia that rig n start there own bear. Didn't cut it here they will never see another bear track. Some areas don't need what other areas need in hounds to catch bears. Some have lots of bears n can b successful without cold nose. Some people have never seen cold nose that it takes to trail game for hours n hours n miles n miles to jump it. Or hounds that have those type noses n then flat run to catch when they jump. As far as things like nose n speed n brains to use them, it's better to have those traits n not need them then to need n not have. The conditions u hunt in r a big part of the hunt too.

I coon hunted n competition hunted n handled all my life up until a few years ago. From the little club hunts to breed days , purina race, n world hunt. The difference in those hounds n the hounds I bear hunt r a world apart. This is just my opinion and what works for me at a very high success rate. Good luck in the woods ! Unless u hunt where I do . Lol

[al baldwin]

Good discussion enjoy reading. I know hunters here who think all coon bred dogs are culls, however when ones traces the dogs some of those hunt, the lineage goes back to coon bred dogs. I have found some of those dogs hunters thought were not nosed, turned into at least medium cold trailers when worked with hounds that would get down and grind out a cold track. For sure, one never can tell how cold nosed a hound can be if not given a chance. And if you don/t hunt with others dogs hard to tell how your hounds nose compares to others. Just my experience. Thanks Al

[Redwood Coonhounds]

See Tbblue, thats where your wrong. You think you live in the only place its hard to catch bear. But I dare say there are others that catch game in your neck of the woods with little effort. Just as it is here.

I have beardogs, first and foremost. I have a couple cold nosed dogs that I will put against anything. In the right conditions they can run a day old track like they are looking at it and put it in a tree. At the end of the day though they are only dogs. I have had dogs come from MI, ID, UT, CO, AZ, MT, WI, IN, OH, SC, NC, and OK that couldn't catch a cold out here. Friend of mine sold what I'd call a mediocre dog to a guy in MI, and had the fella calling him wanting more. It's all in the eye of the beholder.

Beardogs, can catch coon, and compete at some level in nite hunts (not world winners). I do not believe just any coondog will make a beardog though. Just like beardogs and catdogs are worlds apart, you will get rare a few that seem to excell at both. Never say never.

[Tbblue]

There are parts of mi. That have more bear than others n it doesn't take much more than a house dog to catch them. There's people that catch lots of bears in those places n couldn't catch many if any in other places. I never said coon dogs couldn't catch bears n bear dogs couldn't catch coons . Just would never catch game at the level I want. I hunt bear n cats with the same hounds n there's not many of either that get away.This thread was about competition hounds and the type of hound I would take to a competition hunt to win it are not hounds I would take to catch bears. I'm hard to please n There aren't many breeds or strains of hounds that impress me . I would say 75% or more of the hounds fed tday shouldn't b. To many people breeding for papers n titles n don't realize how much the get altered or cheated for. Then they breed junk to junk n continue ruining the hounds.Not tryin to cause a stink or b an a$$ just believe in breeding n hunting dogs that r capable of catching game anywhere n any conditions. There r certain dogs for certian things . Always pay attention to the end of ur leash n look at the faults in ur hounds b4 u get blinded by the good.Try to tell newbies n young hunters not to settle for something , there's good 1s out there just need to find em. U here a lot of people goin for the hunt but I go for the catch n it makes the hunt!

[JoeJones252]

Well said TBBlue. Redwood must the absolute best dogs on earth and you sound mighty biased to walker dogs only if I interpreted that wrong mam I apologize. That being said there are anomolies in all lines of competition dogs and some do make excellent bog game dogs but from my little time on this earth it is really rare. I have had some dogs that went back to some awesome competition bloodlines the majority being walkers and what I've seen from them were just hot nosed pack dogs. Have had one skuna river dog that had a 16 plus hour old nose but lacked grit extremely bad. I wouldn't own a competition from any part of the us these days that means from redwoods walkers in Cali to john hennemans mini sink valley blues in Pennsylvania just me giving my opinion