How much more is there?

[BlacktailStalker]

Blacktailstalker, if you haven't caught on I am talking about you. No offense but that may be the most ignorant statement I have seen on here. I was offended and I don't know any of you guys. I just hope I missed something or this was some sort of an inside joke. The "everyone is out to cheat somebody" mentality doesn't do the hound world any favors either.

Don't take things so personal, its the intraweb

Guess its sort of an inside thing where, yeah, I have some factual knowledge about a thing or two relating to the whole topic, temptation got the best of me and I just couldn't keep my "pie hole" shut.

Odd you condone calling someone ignorant in the same phrase as saying you take offense in something though
Very much like the pot calling the kettle black...

Anyways, I'm off to shoot my worst dog now because if everybody is calling their weakest links "awesome," I've got a long road ahead of me.

[tntoutfitting]

Geez BTS keep your flagrant gunslinging pack improvement program away from me....my food bill would be cut to a trickle and weeds would overgrow my kennels if I followed that theory...at least based on my definition of AWESOME and WEAK LINK; guess the devils in the details on this one and we would need a Houndsmans Dictionary or thesaurus to clarify these definitions before the first shots are fired anywhere



this site is the most awesomest


George come on we all want the best dogs and hopefully a plan to help us maintain/arrive there, thats no hidden secret I assume. If you, me or anyone castrates a young male at 3 months old and sells it off by the age of 2 for faults that particular owner cant tolerate in his "pack standards" (thats still called culling even though shots are not fired and does not need to speak to much to the value or usefullness of the dog as it could well be a useful dog in someone elses pack) it could very well help improve his pack and is likely a wise move to make; BUT based on the previous owners issues (calling a dog a "weak link") with faults etc. how 'bout we dont refer to those sell off/cull type dogs as AWESOME just yet. Lets just call them what they are when judging them by the current owners standards he sets out, maybe the new owner can base his evaluation of the same dog on new standards and if lost breeding potential and the faults are tolerable/nonissue to him all interested parties could rename one mans "weak link" (cull/selloff, bottom of his pack...maybe wonderdog for all we know) as an "AWESOME" dog based on a new criteria for evaluation that the new owner decides.

How'z about this theory, "silk purse or sows ear" depends on your point of view.....I just want to know if we are both discussing pig parts before I make my decision or accept the other fellas description of a dog.

[JConroy]

BTS your flappin your lips about something you have no actual facts about. I have hunted this dog hard myself and have been on about 30 or so trees this past winter and spring combined and dont recall you being there on one of em so dont throw your 2 cents in on something you know nothing about.This is a dog that most houndmen would like to have especially the guys that only hunt cats. It is an awesome cat dog and I seen it myself, it just wasnt cuttin it on the nastier bears. Like I said in my other post what works for one guy may not work for me and if 1 dog sticks it they all better stick it. It wasnt an easy decision for Eric to move the dog but it opened up a spot for a pup. Thats how you build a better pack and get to the next level BTS. If the dogs you train and dont make the grade are only good enough for a bullet, maybe you need to re think what your doing.

www.sheepcreek.com

[George Streepy]

Troutoutfitting, I realize selling off a dog could be referred to as culling. Not always the case though. Just because a dog doesn't fit into your pack doesn't mean it won't work outstandingly well in someone elses. We all know this. I have sold and gave away dogs that weren't working out. Because they were sold or given away doesn't make them culls. I have also bought several dogs that were far from culls. Bought a few culls too!

I guess what I don't understand is the childish banter that comes along after some one makes a fairly simple comment. Maybe if this Eric fellow would have said it was a real nice dog instead of awesome the BS comments wouldn't have come around. But I doubt it.

I once sold a dog that would drag her feet and knock straw all over when coming out of the box. The dog did it all, could catch her own bobcats and was probably one of the better lion dogs I have owned. I had two other dogs that did really well also. I didn't need all the dogs, or the money. I sold her simply to make room so I could experiment with some young dogs and try to better my pack. It is that simple. She drug her feet getting out of the box, that is why I chose her to sell. To prove the dog wasn't a cull, I bought her back when the guy was building his home and he bought her back again when he finished his home. Very far from a cull, in fact I would say she was an awesome dog.

[grouse]

Come on guy's ,how many of you have heard someone say about how good a dog was and you go out with it and wonder what the f&^*k are you thinking ? What is great to one guy is'nt necessarily going to be in the ballpark for others .

[B&T man]

Troutoutfitting, I realize selling off a dog could be referred to as culling. Not always the case though. Just because a dog doesn't fit into your pack doesn't mean it won't work outstandingly well in someone elses. We all know this. I have sold and gave away dogs that weren't working out. Because they were sold or given away doesn't make them culls. I have also bought several dogs that were far from culls. Bought a few culls too!

I guess what I don't understand is the childish banter that comes along after some one makes a fairly simple comment. Maybe if this Eric fellow would have said it was a real nice dog instead of awesome the BS comments wouldn't have come around. But I doubt it.

I once sold a dog that would drag her feet and knock straw all over when coming out of the box. The dog did it all, could catch her own bobcats and was probably one of the better lion dogs I have owned. I had two other dogs that did really well also. I didn't need all the dogs, or the money. I sold her simply to make room so I could experiment with some young dogs and try to better my pack. It is that simple. She drug her feet getting out of the box, that is why I chose her to sell. To prove the dog wasn't a cull, I bought her back when the guy was building his home and he bought her back again when he finished his home. Very far from a cull, in fact I would say she was an awesome dog.

Would you say she was a weak link in your pack?

[tntoutfitting]

Well put George, you just failed to point out she was your "weakest link" though you do clarify why, and each owner may chose the reasons. And I think the reason why is the two terms dont tie together nicely with young up and comers. Older dogs are far more able to share both terms as by an older age they can have offered their genetic makeup (via breeding) and training service (to younger upstarts) as well as just the years of hunting service and enjoyment an older dog has given.

You or anyone says they are selling an "older" awesome dog that is your "weakest link" and I get the definition, as the age is the weakness factor for culling/selling off what can otherwise be a very useful dog for the guy that needs a trainer or that bloodline or just a solid old dog to hunt out for its last couple years.

I just struggle with the owner culling a dog applying a sales stamp that says "awesome" on one side but "weakest link" on the flip side being attached to any neutered young unfinished dogs with faults the current owner will not tolerate that has it whole hunting/breeding career in front of it. Like I said, the next guy may not have issue with the faults or need breeding potential, so for him I guess awesome may fit in his own mind but he better clarify that he judges on a score card missing half the catagories!

Houndsmen young or old, experienced or beginner should be right thrilled to have a young dog that deserves the title of "awesome" applied to him. We are all striving for that awesome young dog, let the titles definition mean what it should for those young hopeful prodigys that come through our kennels.

Who ever said cull was a bad word to start with, just is what it is. (someone will look it up in a dictionary, houndsmen version or otherwise)

Nuff said by me on this I'm out. amongst yourselves onward if you like.

PS: I dont outfit for trouts, I cant even catch one of those slippery things

[George Streepy]

I didn't need her. My point isn't whether or not that dog was the weak link. My point is good dogs get sold from time to time. I have absolutely no clue where some of these dogs hit on the awesome scale. I don't really care. I am not the biggest fan of people calling other peoples dogs culls. If you limit how many dogs you are going to keep but you want to continue to advance yourself and the ability of your pack then dogs will be rotated through. Good hard working experienced dogs will be moved to make an opening for the next one. It doesn't mean there culls. It definitely isn't some one elses place to call them culls. I get the whole point about awesome, awesomer, and awesomest. One might make the stretch to say the guy was bragging up the dogs he kept. But I don't think that was the point he was trying to make.

On the topic of how much more is there, trying different breeds, blood lines, etc is a way I decided to find out how much better is out there. I am not bashful to try something different. If that different dog is working better than what I have, then I found my next dog. I do not want 20 dogs, I have to make room. So occasionally perfectly good dogs are going away. The person that ends up with it can rate it on the awesome scale.

tntoutfitting-got it. Sorry about that!

[BlacktailStalker]

BTS your flappin your lips about something you have no actual facts about. I have hunted this dog hard myself and have been on about 30 or so trees this past winter and spring combined and dont recall you being there on one of em so dont throw your 2 cents in on something you know nothing about.This is a dog that most houndmen would like to have especially the guys that only hunt cats. It is an awesome cat dog and I seen it myself, it just wasnt cuttin it on the nastier bears. Like I said in my other post what works for one guy may not work for me and if 1 dog sticks it they all better stick it. It wasnt an easy decision for Eric to move the dog but it opened up a spot for a pup. Thats how you build a better pack and get to the next level BTS. If the dogs you train and dont make the grade are only good enough for a bullet, maybe you need to re think what your doing.

http://www.sheepcreek.com

If you'll go back and read a more carefully, the discussion isnt about the actual dog.
Thats the cool thing about these forums, anybody can be a celebrity online... I just hope the kids that read this shit don't believe 90% of it.

The point has been covered by more than just myself.
The hound world is a small one, you'd be surprised what others know.

I appreciate the opinion though... but since we're giving opinions here, very unprofessional way to advertise, on a post like that.
By the way, welcome to the forum, I see its your first post.

[JConroy]

BTS, you made comments that obviously changed the whole complextion of the thread. Instead of responding to the post on how to improve your pack you called a guy out for selling a dog he refered to as awesome. I do have first hand knowledge of Eric and all his dogs and we are not sure where all your information comes from. I have no idea who BTS is and am sure I have never hunted with you. I am not advertising on here, I have advertised on BGH before but not too many guys on this site need to hire an outfitter. Also this is not my first post I usually come in under the name Grizzly dog but for some reason my password has changed and had to change names. I dont usually respond to any posts on here at all cause of this BS.
Its a simple fact people do sell dogs that are "awesome", "great" to improve their kennel. In this case the dog had everything but the baying. TnT made a good point in how can you paint a dog awesome and weak link in the same sentence? Easy we all do it, how many people have sold or have in their kennel an awesome or great cat dog, but not so good an the nasty bears? Awesome strike dog but not so good on bobcats, awesome bear dog but wont cross water etc. This is a typical conversation every houndsmen has when discussing their dogs or critqueing others. Im done with this as well, BTS call me anytime my # is on my website. TnT I will call you in the next couple of days I would like to discuss next Spring Grizzly hunt. I have new options you may be interested in.

www.sheepcreek.com