Training question

[sheimer]

With the recent topic of backtracking discussed earlier I have a question....

1. I used tritronics to teach my hound to STOP running the track that she was on. When she heard the tone, she learned to pick up her head and QUIT the track she was on or else pain would be soon to follow. If I use the same COMMAND for stoping a backtrack, shouldn't she give the same RESPONCE?

Scott

[pegleg]

yeah, she will give you the same response which is to stop trailing. am I correct in thinking this is a young dog since she's still back trailing? I would work on recall and make sure she handles real well. I know some people say they won't own a hound that can be called 0ff a track. this doesn't make too much since to me. what difference is there in dragging a hound off the tree physically or calling a hound off vocally ? both are you exerting your will on the hound. They are vocal animals that fallow a hierarchy in the pack and you should be the top of that pack and they should understand they hunt what YOU want ie. trash breaking etc. So the ability to recall a hound positively and point it in the right direction is priceless at this stage. scent training hounds with bottled scents may have a small effect on their tendency to back trail. I have had hounds who weren't trained on bottled scent back trail but it just seems a higher number of drag trained hounds do for longer periods. long answer short question but there's always the chance off turning them off the right scent with a e collar. it also has alot to do with your dogs sensitivity to correction.

[Mike Leonard]

I agree with Pegleg. Each dogs mentality and mental toughness must we known and then the training techniques applies in line with that indiviual. Not all dogs can take the same pressure and some need a little more.

I also agree on bottled scent and drags. I quit using both some time ago. the technique I describe in (Cat Training) works better than a drag and the gland paste scent is more natural. Also I start the trail from the tree and work back to the strike. some dogs will still backtrack more often than other. On dry ground lion hunting even the best hounds will run a backtrack a good percentage of the time but as described a whistle like I use and trained with the tone is much better to get them rounded up and back going the right way. That screaming and yelling and cussing and running and falling and riding at break necks speed to get around them like a stampeding her of cattle is not all that much fun. LOL!

[sheimer]

Thanks for the responces. She is quite "stubborn" and thick skulled. I guess that I was under the impression that backtracking was as severe of offense as running trash and was having a hard time rationalizing it as such. She is a young dog and has had only two occurences of picking up a backtrack. Both times she was picking up a loss that the pack made and the area was thick with cat tracks. We never found a kill, but the areas were covered with tracks and they were all about the same age of tracks. Needless to say, I can call her off of them without shocking her, just my voice and if I'm out of hearing range, the tone button brings her right in. I have a hard time in punishing (shocking) a dog for running a cat track. I understand turning them around, but not hurting them.

Thanks again,

Scott

[R.M.]

...I start the trail from the tree and work back to the strike...

If you do this aren't you teaching them to backtrack?

[Coyote]

Not if you're laying a scent trail. You lay the track by yourself beginning at the tree then start the dogs on the other end. The thought behind this is more scent at the tree versus the starting point.

[Mike Leonard]

Right on Coyote!

[pegleg]

one other little item on this when leaving the track under no circumstance stop to add a little more scent this can cause a pup to hold up in this area and not want to move the track out. it might sound like common sense if you think it out but some dont and I've seen it happen

[razorrb]

Mike has some very good points. I think that in another angle on this along with what Mike has stated is that not all dogs will come out of backtracking. If the parents did it or the grandparents then its sure to show up some time. There are techniques to try such as described above but if this does not change maybe you should re evaluate your young dog. And I mean that in a genuine way, not telling you what to do. If you are still having problems I highly reccomend you call John Wick and pick his brain about things like that. He is very good at helping others figure it out. He is a very useful tool if you choose to talk with him.

[Ike]

Sheimer,

Yes she should, but I usually have tried the voice commands first (under lots of different conditions) and then applied the tone button to re-enforce those commands if and when needed. Hopefully, over time that dog will learn to listen to you voice and respond rather than having to utilize that toner. Like I've said many times, if a hound isn't listening to you you're gonna have alot of bad days in the field catching it off trash and picking it up somewhere down a backtrail.


Drags,

I haven't laid down scent for a dog to trail in a long time, and personally figure no scent a person can buy is better than the real deal. All of my hounds in recent years have learned to trail the real deal with the older dogs--either lion or bear. That way, I don't have to wonder what a manufacture put in his bottle of crap for my dogs.

The last time I did put down scent for a pup, I would start off with a low level and freshen it up near the tree to indicate a jumped lion or bear. The timeline a person uses to put down scent for a pup in no way resembles how scent is found on a traveling tom lion if that hound has to trail from daylight until dark for the jump. Many times that lion has walked over frozen snow and ice (and on top) in the night while that hound starts the same way and often finished in melted snow and mud as the afternoon sun works that track and scent over. Only a hound knows how that scent changes (through experience) throughout the day and man could in no way emulate those conditions cause he has no knowledge of it.........and by the way, those conditions I just described may well be the toughest a man will find while trailing down a super tom lion.

Bottom line if I have a young dog starting out I put a couple of my best trail dogs down, lace up my boots and grab that pup and go with them. Those outings provide a little exercise and give the trainer lots of insight into what is really going on with the track and the young hound. If that young dog is bred right it will begin to find the track with a little help and you'll have "Game on" with it.......

Good luck and let us know how it all works out!

ike