Black Hills boys whacking lots of females

[Mike Leonard]

Sounds like the Black Hills of South Dakota is pretty typical of snow hunting areas with lots of novice hunters. The ratio of male to female harvest a bit out of sink. I don't think most of the state is very happy about the cougar anyway so they will be glad to know that harvest numbers with these ratios will help discourage population growth.

Black Hills cougar season closed


RAPID CITY, S.D. — The mountain lion hunting season in South Dakota’s Black Hills has closed.

The state Game, Fish and Parks Department said the season closed this past week after the 40th lion was reported killed.

The season began Jan. 1 and was to run either through March or until 25 female lions or a combination of 40 male and female lions were killed.

Game and Fish said 24 females and 16 males were killed this season. The final five were killed Wednesday

[bowhound]

hard to be real selective when they don't let you run them with hounds.

[Doogie]

what do you expect from opportunistic hunting, hard to sex a cat from 100+ yards. Least its not a total blow out from years past, where the female quota was reached before 10 males had been taken. Id imagine of the final 5, 4 were females and one was a male

[melutter]

I told a higher up in gf&p if they used dogs that you are able to sex the lions and kill more males. He told me I was all wet.

[Big Mike]

Surprising that a state like SD doesnt allow cougar hunting with dogs. Hopefully they will change their minds.

They are doing a pretty good study on cougars there with some suprising findings on densities. I was told (3rd hand info) they folks running the study tried to get their G&F to harvest 100 cougars so they could get a handle on the population. Gives you an idea of what they think the population is.

They are even trapping them off of roadkills regularly for the study. Game is thick there sounds like the big cats are too!!!

[bowhound]

In reading public comments on the 2009 lion report, there seems to be more people who comment against the use of dogs than those for it. The majority of comments from houndsman mainly read something like " we need to use dogs". That's great, but providing a variety of reasons why the use of hounds would be beneficial and incorporate reasonings to match the s.d game/fish management objectives would make a much stronger case than just saying "use hounds". We all know why using dogs is beneficial but the public and agencies are obviously ignorant to it. Non-houndsman want to make equal opportunity to harvest a lion for all parties and they think use of dogs is non-sporting ,unfair etc.... the same old arguments. I know there are s.d houndsmen working with game managers and legislatures behind the scenes, but it is definately not reflected in comments made by houndsman in the lion report. It is obvious they want the overall population reduced quickly and they can achieve that by an open hunting season outside of deer/elk season. Until the management objective is to meet certain carrying capacity or male/female ratios, it doesn't matter to them what age, gender, size is harvested. Then again if you look at harvest practices by houndsmen in adjacent rocky mountain states where sub adults are falling outta trees for the almighty dollar, it doesn't make much of a case to use dogs as a management tool.

[Big Horn Posse]

Been a high female to male ratio since they opened a cougar season in SD. So it doesn't surprise me one bit. I believe the reason they do not allow hounds is because they do not want or care what gets taken and if it is done in a sporting way or not. The SD Parks and Wildlife guys are idiots... Least the ones they always have on the news talking about the cougars in SD.

[wwy]

Might want to be careful what you say. Across the border in WY (area 1 and 30) houndsmen haven't been much more selective. In the last 10 years hounds took 66 cats 50% female and 50% male. Without dogs 61 cats have been taken 46% female and 54% male. Meaning the nonselective non hound hunters are actually killing more males and less females. Im all for hounds and hound hunting, but shooting out everything that gets treed isn't helping the cause of the houndsmen in NE Wyoming or the argument being made above. It aint just the snow chasers in NM afterall Mike, its everywhere.

[Doogie]

.......Then again if you look at harvest practices by houndsmen in adjacent rocky mountain states where sub adults are falling outta trees for the almighty dollar, it doesn't make much of a case to use dogs as a management tool.

ok playing devils advocate here, but if outfitters dont sex cats in a tree and shoot whatever with no regard to the quota, how are they going to make money when a district closes because a female sub quota was reached?

wwy, if the non houndhunters would of shot 3 more females insted of males those stats are EXACTLY the same, How many of those non houndhunters knew EXACTLY what they where looking at threw their scope? The wy predator regulations where written by the Stockgrowers Ass. if you want to be mad at anyone be mad at them for the liberal regs. They would rater see the lion wiped out, how many lions would be left in WY if it wasent for the lion factory of the Black Hills of SD?

this is the FIRST year, the SD season has not closed with a severely lopsided female to male ratio, the quota was 40 cats, 25 females and 15 males (actual 24 females, 16 males) last time I checked 24+16=40, the quota had been reached. The first year SD had a season, if I remember correctly 25 females and 5 males where taken before the season was shut down

This was a loaded thread to begin with, I dont see how killing less females is going to get a population under control, I can see it when they get the population under control and enter a management phase, but not at this time. When I was there in Rapid they had lions roaming around downtown and elementary schools looking for a meal. Everyone should be happy that there is one more female running around.

[wwy]

Doogie, I'm not mad at anyone. Simply pointing out that in the black hills, regardless of jurisdiction or pursuit method there aren't too many people being selective. And you are right, the hills can likely support a pretty heavy harvest, not arguing that at all.

[r_cordell]

The reason that they don't allow hounds in SD is because the Fish and Game doesn't want to put up with the "headaches" of houndsmen following their hounds onto private ground. At least that's the answer my Dad got at a public meeting a year and a half ago from one of the F&G Supervisors out of Rapid City.

[Mike Leonard]

You know if they are whacking that many lions without hounds can you imagine how thick they were? Really think about it....where else in a fairly localized area do you shoot five lions in a day without hounds or snares?