Scent drags

[Powder River Walker]

I have been reading alot about scents and drags. It sounds like they are pointless. With a young pup (5-7 months) what does it hurt to put them on a drag with a leash to keep from back trailing the first few times. To help build confidence and show them that hunting is fun and not work.

Just because athelets have both parents that were atheletic a volleyball player still lays on the floor and sets a volleyball in the air, a basketball player does non-game like ball handling drills, football players do non-game foot work drills, Race horse trainers do drills with colts and they make a lot of roping tools that simulate real run type situations (I.E. Hot heeles, heel-o-matic, buford). All of which gives the athelet confidence to perform in a game situation.

While I understand you can't finish a dog with scents and to a certain point a dog will quit wanting to work them because they are beyond that point. How does it effect the confidence or the ability to exercis a smelling scense on a pup?

[Big Mike]

I dont think they are pointless, but there are alot of different training philosophys that work. Scent drags, or scent methods are just to START the dog and get them using there nose and trailing. I think they are good until the pup gets around 6-12months (depends on the pup). Then need to move towards the real thing.

I agree that the stuff you buy in bottles probably doesnt smell the same as what a dog smells when trailing a track. But when starting a young pup I dont think it being exact matters, because when you lay a drag the dog will be smelling your scent as well.

A pup is not going to go from running scent drags to cold trailing a 12 hour old lion track his first time out.

Remember they are just to START the dog nothing more

[Powder River Walker]

Big Mike I agree with you on just a starter 100%. to me you have to build a dogs conifdents before you throw them out into the real thing.

[sourdough]

Read Mike Leonards cat training post, Mike has kept and trained many hound over the past forty years and scent training has been a part of his program. I will say that nothing can replace the real thing but a person has to start somewhere. scent drags sure can't hurt, besides to many good pups have been ruined by the lack of handling and game playing. So it sounds to me that your off to a great start you get out what you put in good luck and have fun.

sourdough

[cobalt]

Scent drags are a good way to start pups, esp. if you don't have a pup trainer(old dog). Drags offer a controlled situation that you have the opportunity to watch the dog work the track and locate the tree. If you feel that the dog(pup) is not challenged by the drag, then challenge them! I read where the Lee Bros. laid 14mi. drags for their dogs. It is a great way to get dogs in hunting shape, in fact, my opinion is that other than actually hunting, this is the best way to get dogs in shape. If your pup locates a drag 10 feet off the ground with ease, then pick up the drag 20 feet before the tree and put it 40ft. up. Once a pup runs a 5 mile drag and locates 40 ft. up a tree and stays treed on it for 30 minutes, well, that pup is ready for the woods. If you don't like drag scent, then use a fresh roadkilled coon or cat. It is still not the same as a live animal, but maybe it's closer, plus when they locate and tree for the time you think is acceplable, you can drop it down for them to chew on as a reward. Drags are definitely not a necessity in making good dogs, but in my experience, pups that were started on drags and got good at it became good game catching dogs.

[Brady Davis]

I agree with Cobalt and I think drags are great. One reason I like them is it is controlled. Of course the hound doesn't know that but you know every step of the trail and you can see HOW the dog actually works it. I know our goal is to catch game but I often wonder how much good or how much bad our pups do before the cat is treed....with a drag you'll know everything. I also like the idea of a pup learning how to trail on his own a bit at first, not 100% with a trainer hound. I've seen pups seem to mimick the older dog in style and everything. I like them to develope a bit of independence. Right now I am starting 2 pups and have done a handful of drags so far and it has been a great thing. I know how and when to help and when to praise for a job well done.

Read Mikes posts in the training forum as stated above....it will work.

[Rockcreek]

I agree with Big Mike that drags are to ONLY, start a pup... and I mean once or twice if you HAVE to, NO More!

If you are seeing the whole race from your pup on a drag race and that is a reason to keep doing more... You either have:
A- A very poorly laid drag trail.
B- A very poor pup.
or
C- Both!

Even a well laid drag, following Mike's method, IMO does very little for a dog you expect to someday catch a live critter... except MAYBE start it... Maybe.

IMO- there is nothing like the real thing. I would rather fail 100 times at the real thing and then succeed, than to succeed 100 times on a drag and then fail on the real thing.

Guys train young dogs alone on the real thing, it has happened and can happen for you. Dust the boots off and get after it.

Take care.
Mason

[Mike Leonard]

All very interesting. I never use drags myself anymore.


Oh by the way I have seen some of our S. W. Nance pups who have been worked on the cat training method properly catch the first dry ground lion track in the wild they encounter so it can't be all bad, but then again I wouldn't say these are average pups.

And another thing to remember is there is no charge for that method but it can save you a ton of fuel money, and time but you have to read the first few pargraphes carefully.

[briarpatch]

You drag users should pay attention to the second sentence in the first paragraph of Mike's last post.

Also, Big Mike and Rockcreek gave good advice.

briarpatch

[Ike]

Even a well laid drag, following Mike's method, IMO does very little for a dog you expect to someday catch a live critter... except MAYBE start it... Maybe.

IMO- there is nothing like the real thing.

Take care.
Mason

To start my first hound I worked with drags similar to what Mike talks about because those were the only options open to me without a finished trainer. That dog was a natural and never stuttered on a scent line from her first to her last, but those laid down trails in no way got that dog ready to finish overnight dirt lion tracks. Cold trailing is something that has to be learned by a young dog, and it is best learned running with finished, lock down trail hounds.

In my opinion, the best way to teach a young dog to trail dirt lions is in a pack of finished hounds. And if the track is slow enough a man can lace up his boots and go watch he should. There isn't anything like having a young hound tag alone with half a dozen finished, open hounds down a cold lion track to get it pumped up and wanting to learn. It's also a big help to hunt country with short trees so that dog can easily learn to locate, another learned trait.

I will say running drags to start a pup is certainly OK, but know it is only that like Rock Creek stated--just a start!

ike

[Powder River Walker]

My pup I used the drag on to me started out a real natural. She would put her nose right to the ground hit the trail hard and finished it out strong. I did notice that she never got excided about it. From the start she acted like she was to advanced. Then I got a second pup and she has not been turned on yet. So the other day I caught a coon and after running it I used it for a drag and got her turned on and saw what kind of dog she is going to be, she is going to be an aggressive kill type.

This all brings me to a question. Coons have been few and far between this past month so I have been trapping them catching just a few. I have then been taking them out and running them in a big (2,000 + acres) open area with a few trees. When I relese the coon I take it over a small hill turn it loose and them walk back to the truck, out the trap away then let my hound out. I walk around and let her strike the track. Is this still considered running a caged coon? and untill we start getting more coon action on the river is this going to hurt my hound in any way or is it still a good way to train a pup for lions.
This pup is 7 months and is my oldest hound.

[cobalt]

This is running a caged coon. It's hard to tell if it will hurt your dog. All dogs are different. My opinion is if you want to run lion only or cat only, then you should never put them on anything but what you intend to run. It just eliminates variables that may plague you later(like the dog preferring coons to cat). But, as far as trailing and treeing, this is a great way to go and if you don't have a large coon pop. then I don't think you'll have a problem. Since the coon you're letting go isn't in it's home, it is at a disadvantage which makes it a canned hunt, not real, but the dogs don't know that. I run coon, cat, bobcat, lion and bear, so most all my young dogs are started on coon or whatever I can get for them.

[Coyote]

Scent drags, no; scent trails, yes. In my opinion, there is a big difference between the two.

[Brady Davis]

Scent drags, no; scent trails, yes. In my opinion, there is a big difference between the two.

I agree...there is a HUGE difference...

[Powder River Walker]

what is the difference between drag and trail.