Making a lion hound without any help

[Big Horn Posse]

okay here is a new topic that hasn't been beat to death. I would like to know how many of you have actually made a successful lion hound from a pup with no help from another dog. I am not talking lucky pop up lions the single dog has put up, I am talking cold tracking start to finish hounds. Most people I know start their young dogs with the help of an older experienced hound (pup trainer) I just got this new little 8 month old blue female and she is going to be the only hound I have for awhile so I am going to see what I can do with her this year on her own. I just took her out here in front of my house and let her work around the cedars along the red walls. We found where a bobcat had hid a rabbit and bird it had eaten. It was old, but it was fin to find. She really wants to work and is very athletic. She handles really well and I have only had her 2 days. I have trained many hounds over the years. Most all have been out of my own litters. I can see this one has huge promise and I hope I can do right by her and make her into a lion catching sweetheart.

So tell me how many hounds have any of you made into successful lion hounds without a pup trainer?

[pegleg]

I have trained a hound from the ground up to become a decent dirt dog. I do not recommend this course though. my experience is it takes much longer and is way more physical then the options. I don't feel that most lion hounds will reach their full potential being trained this way. they don't get the encouragement of other hounds they don't receive help in the tough spots like they could. the one major bonus is that the hound will be the best handling hound and you'll develop a real close working relationship. the dog will most likely also develop into a real close hunting dog. different regions may help or hinder your progress. any tracks that you can let the hound work away from you and figure out on their own would be a bonus not to miss. good luck

[Melanie Hampton]

I've done it.. or helped.. Not just a lion hound as he was a bobcat dog too..

Walked out a lot of tracks.. Chased a freaking lot of deer.. Caught a lot of skunks.. Dang dog... But.. taught him how to rig by himself.. Of course this is where the good bloodlines and natural ability come into play.. And the advice of guys who know what the heck they are doing..

He was our only dog for two years.. Then he became the pup trainer... I've never tried it with any other ones.. Haven't needed too.. I do put dogs out of on bobcat tracks by themselves.. But it is after they have been running with the older dogs..

It took a lot of work.. hell of a lot of patience.. and some blisters..

[Mike Leonard]

I agree with Pegleg and Melanie it can be a lot of hard frustrating work but the rewards can be so gratifying.

I have done it a few times and learned a lot in the process about each dog. If your pups is not very gamey the project will be much harder becasue you are fighting a multitiude of factors. First you are trying to expose the pup to the right circumstances to allow their inate instincts to spark and fire off. So if they have lots of desire to trail and want to catch something, chase something even bark at something it makes it a lot easier. Now here is a very critical point and it will usually spell make or break on the project. You are going to have to give that gamey driven busy pup enough rope to play with. You cannot I repeat cannot ride herd over him or her constantly with the tri-tronics because without the competitive advantage of another dog spurring them on encouraging them with barking or giving them confidence they will dry up on you and you will be done. So you are going to run some trash but go easy on this until the pup has actually been in on the proper game and praised a bunch and even then go light because on the brighter side without others to get them in trouble they are much more likley to straighten out quickly one they get their ducks in a row.

Use the Cat Training method and as they get older get your box trap out in legal trapping season and trap a few coons or bobcats and at the end , give them a little wild fur to run. You will lose some or most of these in the begining so you will have to forfiet a little hide money for the project. Don't do too much of this but when you finally get one treed after this and you pop it out you are just about home. From this point it's just boot leather.

Do other things with the pup that build it's confidence, because as I said it won't have the aid of a pack of dogs to guide it or make it jump in and go.


Let me tell you about Hawk: I got him as a 7 week old puppy and I hade just due to some circumstances and job changes had to sell my old hounds. I treated Hawk just like my only other dog Marya who was a black lab. He went swimming with me and even learned to retrieve dumbies thrown in the water, He went on a leash to the park, he went on cattle drives, he rode in the back of the pickup as I worked and did other activities. He was trained early to not be afraid of gunfire and later would accompany me on dove hunts and would hunt around while I shot doves, and Marya retrieved them. He was around the house and he was just like any old pet dog. He was gamey and so I started my trailing games with him and he took right to it. I started him on coons becasue we had a number of them raiding gardens and sweet corn patches and before long he got good on those live trapped coons, and went right to catching hiw own at night. I then did some lion trailing games with him and low and behold he went right down his first snow lion track and was there at the tree an hour later barking up at a nice little tom lion. From that point we graduated to bare ground tracks and bear hunting and you name it he was an all around hound. Yes I had to go thru some frustrating trash races in the start and I was lucky I was broke enough not to have a shock collar or I might have ruined this fine dog but in the end he came out a very good all around dog. He was bright and above all he had desire and was very gamey. I will never forget that little dark brindle plott and all the good times we shared together it was a special experience.

[Big John]

Mike: I had a little red tick that I took out dove hunting with my GSP. Get her used to gun fire. She learned to retreve from the GSP! Only problem! She would not bring it back she would swallow it whole. Had to tie her up.
John

[Brady Davis]

Both me and my friend Tyler have done this when we were teenagers. We had no broke dogs and we made a pretty good pack with one of mine and one of his being the main hounds. It was a TON of trial and error but rewarding as can be.

[Big Horn Posse]

Great info there guys! I have had to make a couple of lion hounds from scratch without a seasoned dog, but this is going to be an adventure for sure this year being as I had sold all my equipment a few years ago. So no shock collar to ruin her and not tracking collar to find her if she gets to far away. Guess I am old schooling it big time here. She is a fine hound and I have never seen such a smart and quick learner. I mean my friend here and I went for a walk this morning and took Bella and his Border Collie pup out and Bella figured out how to get around the cattle guard and in and out of some steep drainages we hiked around before the Border Collie. I am really pleased with her so far. She is super smart and very athletic. Hope I am not spoiling her too much letting her hang out in the house with me when I am not working. Only thing I cant figure out is why she wanted to lay down under the cedars on our hike like she was hot. She is from New Mexico you would think she would be loving the 95 degree Wyoming weather.

Hey Mike. I think she has some of the old blue blood you run in her.

[Spokerider]

I agree with Pegleg and Melanie it can be a lot of hard frustrating work but the rewards can be so gratifying.

I have done it a few times and learned a lot in the process about each dog. If your pups is not very gamey the project will be much harder becasue you are fighting a multitiude of factors. First you are trying to expose the pup to the right circumstances to allow their inate instincts to spark and fire off. So if they have lots of desire to trail and want to catch something, chase something even bark at something it makes it a lot easier. Now here is a very critical point and it will usually spell make or break on the project. You are going to have to give that gamey driven busy pup enough rope to play with. You cannot I repeat cannot ride herd over him or her constantly with the tri-tronics because without the competitive advantage of another dog spurring them on encouraging them with barking or giving them confidence they will dry up on you and you will be done. So you are going to run some trash but go easy on this until the pup has actually been in on the proper game and praised a bunch and even then go light because on the brighter side without others to get them in trouble they are much more likley to straighten out quickly one they get their ducks in a row.

Use the Cat Training method and as they get older get your box trap out in legal trapping season and trap a few coons or bobcats and at the end , give them a little wild fur to run. You will lose some or most of these in the begining so you will have to forfiet a little hide money for the project. Don't do too much of this but when you finally get one treed after this and you pop it out you are just about home. From this point it's just boot leather.

Do other things with the pup that build it's confidence, because as I said it won't have the aid of a pack of dogs to guide it or make it jump in and go.


Let me tell you about Hawk: I got him as a 7 week old puppy and I hade just due to some circumstances and job changes had to sell my old hounds. I treated Hawk just like my only other dog Marya who was a black lab. He went swimming with me and even learned to retrieve dumbies thrown in the water, He went on a leash to the park, he went on cattle drives, he rode in the back of the pickup as I worked and did other activities. He was trained early to not be afraid of gunfire and later would accompany me on dove hunts and would hunt around while I shot doves, and Marya retrieved them. He was around the house and he was just like any old pet dog. He was gamey and so I started my trailing games with him and he took right to it. I started him on coons becasue we had a number of them raiding gardens and sweet corn patches and before long he got good on those live trapped coons, and went right to catching hiw own at night. I then did some lion trailing games with him and low and behold he went right down his first snow lion track and was there at the tree an hour later barking up at a nice little tom lion. From that point we graduated to bare ground tracks and bear hunting and you name it he was an all around hound. Yes I had to go thru some frustrating trash races in the start and I was lucky I was broke enough not to have a shock collar or I might have ruined this fine dog but in the end he came out a very good all around dog. He was bright and above all he had desire and was very gamey. I will never forget that little dark brindle plott and all the good times we shared together it was a special experience.

Excellent advice Mike, you have address the important and key elements.....to start with a dog that IS gamey, and to introduce it. or them to their quarry BEFORE shocking them off the many small critters and such that make up the trash brigaide.

My bud and I are starting our hounds from scratch this way, as we do not have access to an experinced pack to run with. By far, the most difficult aspect of training a lion hound from scratch in my location is finding that lion track to walk them in on.......We have bears by the bushel, and run them both spring and fall, but getting them on lion scent so they can forever remember the smell of the desired game to ultimately run lions on bare and dry ground, is a slow process requiring a heap of lion-finding luck.

[schnell]

This is very interesting to me.

I'm pretty much starting from scratch without experienced dogs or experienced people to help me out. (Though this forum has been very helpful over the past couple years).

When I go hunting it's more like "walking the dogs".

[houndnem]

I started my first pups without help from older dogs. it was not easy, but they ended up better dogs than dogs that learned from other dogs. just not nearly as quick. I started by letting them bark at a trapped coon, and eventually I let it out and they got to chew on it. after that I would let it out and give it a head start. once they were gamey and the snow flew, I would walk them down lion tracks coaxin them all the way till it got so smokn hot they pulled away and opened. the first two lions I caught I pretty much ran em down all but the last 200 yards and then I had to keep em treed till the pups came back and learned how to tree.

[Big Horn Posse]

Okay guys, here's the deal. I took my 8 month old pup Bella out for her second time to see if she has the desire to hunt and to freecast on the dirt. I am really pleased with her. She was working the ground and showed a ton of desire to hunt. She has never been on any game yet, but just her wanting to go out and hunt and not be underfoot I am tickled to death. Need to get her on some game soon then I think it will be show time. Here is one of the little videos I took while I had her out.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wBnHOzS7DcI

[Big Horn Posse]

Another short video of her and the awesome country I get to hunt.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w8z0azrcGDk

[TUCO]

cool vid Tessa. that country looks like it should have a cat or three in it... BUT...I think youve been a nanny to all those babies way to long...A bluetick is not gonna understand the baby talk. blueticks only understand four letter words screamed at them...kinda like what you used to yell at your redbones

[Ike]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w8z0azrcGDk

Looking and sounding like a true, southwestern, dry ground lion hunter tessa! You and that blue bitch are gonna make those southern boys proud in the coming years.

[Big Horn Posse]

Tuco,

See what happens when I trade hounds for babies. I get all soft and mushy and say poopies. Geeze I didn't even realize I did that until i watched it myself. Oh well if you miss hearing me swear just watch my old videos of me yelling at Red.