creating lead dogs

[coastrangecathunting]

Seems to me that there is a lead dog and the rest of the pack tend to stay in that dogs shadow so to speak. Once the lead dog is gone it only takes a couple hunts for the next dog steps up and takes the lead dog role. From what i have seen most houndmen use 1 dog to rig and start the track then turn the rest in as things get lined out. I have my dogs loose all the time , roading and on the box. I try to give them all a chance to be the dog that starts the track. This is on dry ground so you have to be on your toes keeping an eye on the young dogs . I know it is alot easier just hunting the lead dog and letting him or her get the track started but i think it is better for the rest of the dogs to be out there hunting as well. I would think you guys that hunt off horses would be doing the same thing . So what do you think is the best way to create lead dogs , hunting them like i do or turning them in once the track is started?

jc

[Daniel Tremblay]

I would agree, a dog wont learn to be a lead dog and unless it is allowed to be the first on the track. Let the young dog start the track, that is if you want it to be a lead dog and not just a butt sniffer lol

[Big N' Blue]

90% of my limited hunting is done in dry ground of the back of a mule with 7-9 dogs of varying ages and any one of them will start a track. Just have to make sure that they start the track you want to run. Not all that complicated when you have a handle on them. It really is not rocket science to make a dog liston to you. All you really have to do is let them know what you want and hold the accountable when they mess up. After all they are just human! LOL

[Maddoglures]

I hunted mostly bears the first 10 years. This is what i learned very soon after losing a couple of my lead dogs.

First lesson, get control of your pups early in life. They must know their name, come when called and know the the top of the dog box is where all the action is.

Second, Make sure your dogs know they are to load up when told. Now this will cause a few problems at first, since they all will want to get on top of the dog box.

I start out with only a couple of pups at a time. These pups must be old enough to handle themselves in a fight with a caged coon, I get this action at the "Swim Races" Hound clubs have throughout the summer.

Put your best pup on top of the dog box, keeping the other one in the dog box, just make sure the pup in box is on the correct side so he can get the wind current coming at him. You must always drive into the wind so you can watch the pups action. This is better done with a platform on the hood, you can see when he first gets a whiff of the track.

Stop at this time, give him time to tell you he has just located Mr. Coon.
If he barks GREAT, but sometimes you need to tell him he has found the BONANZA.

I don`t mind this, it just tells me the dog wants to hunt. I would live trap a coon or just get a hide, make a short drag across the road, going to the tree the coon is placed in.

Sometimes the dog in the box will alert first, don`t worry. The dog on the box will soon start to learn if he strikes first, he gets let go find the coon first.

Always let the dog that strikes first go find the track and tree. This will get the dog on box fired up like you would not believe. Now let the other dog down so he to can enjoy a good amount of treeing. I only ley them tree for just a few minutes, then drag them away, go straight home put those dogs away for at least a week.

The next time out go to a different location, do the same thing, except this time put other pup on box. In just a few trips out these pups will be crazy to get up on dog box to troll for some hot scent.

Thanks for reading, Good Luck Training.

[Justaguy]

You know it has been a while since I ran a pack of dogs but I road hunted 99% of the time on dry ground and I let all my dogs out. I had my older check dogs and if a young dog got excited about a track and the old dog did not want anything to do with it was time to check the track and do a little correcting if it was called for. After enough time any of my dogs could start a track and the rest went with them.

Justaguy

[Mike Leonard]

Many dogs can start a track first, many dogs can be a rig dog many can even be a check dog but on the dirt real lead dogs are exposed not be trained . Lead dogs are born lead dogs and there are a whole lot of packs that have a good record but no real lead dogs. When you see one operate even at a young age you will say, now that is different. (CASH)

[Maddoglures]

Mike;
You are absolutly right lead dogs are born to lead, the rest are just followers.
I could count the really great dogs on one hand that ate my dog food.

[Daniel Tremblay]

Mike,
Your comment about being born a lead dog really caught my eye. So how do you tell a lead dog at an early age? What things do you look for? I have a pup just over a yr that will honor my older proven dogs strike if he not already on the track but once he starts that track he does he own thing and will blow past her and carry the track all the way by himself. Granted the older not is slowing and cant keep up with him but would this be something along the lines of what you look for ?

[redbone70]

ive been thinking about this topic latly i have one dog and looking for another. but my thoughts are to many lead dogs means they might not stick together and want to find there own bear. and 2nd all packs need a leader and they might fight over it has anyone ran into these problems?

[George Streepy]

I believe there is a difference between a lead dog and a once in a lifetime great dog. In my opinion what Mike is describing is a rare great dog. In a pack the dogs will learn that a certain dog is barking for a reason and fly to them. Knowing that when they get there they will be on game. They learn to honor the dog that doesn't let them down. In most packs you find a lead dog, the one the others pay attention to the most, no matter how good or bad the pack is.

As far as creating a lead dog, I don't think it really happens that way. The lead dog creates its own position in the pack, by proving itself to the other dogs. I wouldn't know how to create a lead dog without holding back the others, but what would be the point in that. The lead dogs in my packs weren't always the alpha dog either.

The best packs of dogs I have hunted with didn't really have a lead dog, they had several.

[Mike Leonard]

Very well said George I concur.

I have a 6 month old pup right now that I can tell you he is going to be a lead dog. Most of the times older experienced dogs pay little or no attention to a pup and they just push him around or out of the way. Already you can see he is moving up the food chain. He is not mean or assertive other than he wants to be treated like a big dog right now and he acts very mature and sure of himself and yes independant. time will only tell but I have watched a lot of pups over the years and this one has the qualities early that mark him a natural leader and the other dogs recognize this and they want to be in his kennel with him or welcome him to share food where they would not allow other pups to do this in their own pen. dog social order is a very facinating thing, and the pack leader now is 10 years old and very experience and still very vital but he spends the most time with this pup almost like he realizes what will come in the future.

[George Streepy]

At the start of this season I quit hunting my older lead dogs. It made me very nervous because now the oldest dog in my pack is 3 years old. My younger dogs have seen plenty of game to build a solid foundation but I wasn't sure what to expect as the season moved on. It has been very exciting and interesting to watch the young dogs mature and step up to fill the shoes left empty by their seniors. In the last month or so those young dogs have matured beyond their years, and fortunately for me they have figured out what they need to do to catch game.

The two year old dog that has earned her way to the top of the pack would have been considered a cull by most hunters just 15 months ago. There was always this energy that I couldn't overlook, so I kept her. Without the older dogs to coast behind she has been forced to learn and develop her skills. She did not show the natural drive to be the pack leader from an early age, but has surely stepped up to exceed any expectations I had of her. Dogs that payed no attention to her last season are running to her now.

Mike,
I get what your saying about that pup of yours. That will be a fun dog to hunt I am sure. I have had pups that showed potential at an early age but the old dogs still couldn't stand them. And there was no way they were sharing their dinner with them.