How many montana cougar hunters are here?

Spanky · Post by **Spanky** » Thu Jan 24, 2008 11:21 am

Was wondering if you fellas had your regional meeting and how you think it went in your area. No changes here in Region 1 except that they are gonna implement the point system for unsucessful cougar permit applicants.
Also was told there will be increase in permits HD 100, 103, 104 and 140

. I am pushing for a female sub quota in quota area HD 132, too many slobs just filling tags rather then hunting for a quality cougar.

MTblack&tan · Post by **MTblack&tan** » Thu Jan 24, 2008 12:54 pm

I was out of town for our meeting in Bozeman. I did here a few things that are going on. Really no changes to Region 3. Region 2 is supposedly looking at a permit system and that has a bunch of guys in region 3 all nervous. Supposedly the commissioner said that if region 2 goes to permit, region 3 will soon follow. I have to say that guys are coming up with some rather creative arguements to this system. Spanky you know the answer to a question of mine I am sure, Can you still chase lions in Region 1 permit areas if you don't have a kill permit?

catdogs · Post by **catdogs** » Thu Jan 24, 2008 1:22 pm

Anyone with a signature line like yours isn't allowed in Regions 1 or 2

MTblack&tan · Post by **MTblack&tan** » Thu Jan 24, 2008 1:51 pm

Maybe my signature line is misunderstood. Guys around here are killing every cat they can and then start whining because they aren't finding as many tracks to run. I hope thats how you interpret it.

larry · Post by **larry** » Thu Jan 24, 2008 8:06 pm

Don't want to see the permit system in reg. 3. The fish and game is already determining what sex and quantity of lions can be killed in each district, why do they need to determine WHO gets to harvest that sex and quantity? You are gonna have the "slob" hunters shooting adolescent toms and females regardless, apparently that is happening in HD132?? That is a draw area isn't it? Draw system limits ethical and "slob" hunters equally. Personally I have seen alot of females with kittens this year and alot of females with kick off age sub adults, and I haven't seen where anyone has turned a dog loose on anything in this category. Every place is different, but I am confident that the lion population is thriving there, and it has made for a pretty fun year so far

Spanky · Post by **Spanky** » Thu Jan 24, 2008 10:24 pm

The answer is yes if you do not draw a permit you can still chase cougars but not until Dec.2nd. You can still go out on the 1st but you can only chase bobcats. The state chase season for cougars does not start till Dec. 2nd.

I have been told by regional managers that region 2 will only go partital permit and that will be the Bitteroot area. With Desamone and Long making great arguements in regard to region 2 with their low quotas and only 10% of quota being set aside for non-resident there is no biological reasoning to go to permit.

As for region 3 and the rest of the state again their is no biological reason to go to permits. Many quotas do not even close until january so there is plenty of time for those looking to get off their ass and go hunt for a cougar.

I would surely hope they do not put the whole state in a permit, there is no reason for it in my opinion.

catdogs · Post by **catdogs** » Fri Jan 25, 2008 12:46 am

Since when did biolgical reason or any good reason for that matter, play into effect?

Tough to say whats going ot happen. Sorry MTBT I did misunderstand your sig.

MTblack&tan · Post by **MTblack&tan** » Fri Jan 25, 2008 2:07 am

The biological reason I can come up with is that two year old cats make up the highest percentage of cats being killed in Region 3. This has held steady since 1998, and this percentage actually gets higher from '98 til now. Along with that the quotas drop almost every year, with females down to either one or no female subquota. I know too many guys that have vowed to kill every cat they tree, want to become so called "legends" of lion hunting. Larry, you must be hunting in one of the good spots or on private land. I guarantee that any cat around these woods is getting chased if it crosses a road or trail.

Liv2Hunt · Post by **Liv2Hunt** » Fri Jan 25, 2008 2:49 am

Spanky, If I apply for a special deer or elk permint and am not succesful I can still hunt else where in the state. Any idea why if you are unsuccessful with the lion drawing that you cannot hunt any where else in the state but can still chase? Is this to cut down on the number of out of state hunts piling into other areas if they are not drawn for a permit? I realize that you must be selective with harvesting any animal but it would be my luck to be only chasing and have the big daddy in the tree. Being new to the sport this may appear a stupid question but I have been curious.

larry · Post by **larry** » Fri Jan 25, 2008 2:49 am

Some days are better than others

I hear that up by Scott a guy can cut a track for every hour you spend driving around looking for them! Some days you can't get away from em and some days 400 miles of driving and nothing where I'm hunting. Still don't think a permit system is at all even close to being needed. I would sure hate to see us shoot ourselves in the foot by opening the door for tighter restrictions, would hate to see us in the same spot as Ca., Or., or Wa. Eventually it could happen, maybe not in my lifetime, but evenhtually.

Spanky · Post by **Spanky** » Fri Jan 25, 2008 3:16 am

Any idea why if you are unsuccessful with the lion drawing that you cannot hunt any where else in the state but can still chase?

That provision was put in their for some very good reasons. First one is if a houndsmen from region 1 applies and does not get drawn they will not be able to go to adjoining regions and add additional harvest pressure that would pressure those regions to also go into permits.

The second reason is if a houndsmen from one of the other regions decided to put in and is unsucessful they can not go back to their home region and add pressure.

The permit is a gamble like all others, either you gamble knowing you can still chase anywhere in the state or you just get a quota tag and hunt in any open quota area in the state.

This is alot like an antelope tag, you can buy a 900 archery tag and hunt anywhere and its guaranteed or you can put in for one district for rifle and gamble not getting drawn at all.

Larry

I hear that up by Scott a guy can cut a track for every hour you spend driving around looking for them!

Well we had 4 snowcats running on saturday for a buddy that has a 130 permit. We ran from 6am till 1pm and none of us found 1 track

HD 130 still today only has filled 3 tags, 2 males and 1 female. Now I am not saying we do not have some cougars but they are not in the range that justifies a permit number of 10.

Last year we had a permit number of 8 and they only took 4. This district has been like a whore house for years. They have over run the quota every year dating back to 94 with the exception of last year.

larry · Post by **larry** » Fri Jan 25, 2008 3:29 am

Scott,
Some days/weeks are definatly better than others. Didn't they used to run that over by a couple in the first couple days of season?? Maybe one of these days I'll have to head north and see just how bad you have it up there

notellm · Post by **notellm** » Fri Jan 25, 2008 5:02 am

I would like to see a female sub quota on 140 and 132. There was a little female and a sub male running together on Strawberry Lake road early on. The female was shot because she was a nicer of the two cats. The sub male kept going back to its mothers kills along the creek. I ran him a few times then finally somebody smoked the little feller. I am suprised to see people shooting females with a once in a life time lion permit! I think the one in the swan was on the opener? I guess at least it is limited in permit areas.

Spanky · Post by **Spanky** » Fri Jan 25, 2008 10:44 am

Maybe one of these days I'll have to head north and see just how bad you have it up there

I'm all over the next two-three weeks but your more then welcome to take a ride up

Bring a snowcat if you got one 80% of the roads are plugged.

I am suprised to see people shooting females with a once in a life time lion permit! I think the one in the swan was on the opener? I guess at least it is limited in permit areas

Know what you mean. We got cut off while running a female and juvie

I could not believe it, you could planely see it was not that big by the track

Anyway they cut in on our run were it crossed the main road while the hounds were on the hill working there way down on the track. When we got to the road we found there rigs and heard the hounds treeing. Watched them drag out a 80# female in a permit area

Time for me to start flattening some tires I guess

MTblack&tan · Post by **MTblack&tan** » Fri Jan 25, 2008 1:20 pm

I don't think the permit system is an easy fix and I think we should try a few select areas in region 3 be put on special permit. Mostly a few areas that have lots of road access and get pounded every day. Live2hunt, only chasing and then treeing that big tom is exactly why you may put in for the permit the next year. Just like driving by the elkhorns or gardiner and seeing big bulls, makes you think about putting in for that unit. I also think if more people had the attitude that you and the other guys on here have we would be fine and not have to look at permits. That is, enjoy the sport and the chase and if you are going to shoot one let it be a mature tom. Larry, its the same for me. I cut three tracks in one day almost three weeks ago and haven't found one since. I have only been out five or six times since then and hunt by myself, but still like you said some days are better than others.

How many montana cougar hunters are here?

How many montana cougar hunters are here?

Out of Town

Misunderstood

Reasons

permit ?

exactly