Decline of the bluetick hound.

[Mike Leonard]

Well we put the redbone topic to bed I beleive. What do you all think about the noble bluetick breed? Seems but a few years ago he was herelded injust about every big game hunting story. The famous breeders of the past , Elbert Vaughn, Warren Haslour, Ernest Lee, OO Grant,Al Womack,Julias Sebastion, Guy Ormiston,guess Dave Dean is still around, and some of the Uctmans and Maybe old Buzz raises a pup now and then but it seems that Cameron is the main buzz these days when it comes to the blue dogs in big game circles. What's with that?

[cecil j.]

Well we put the redbone topic to bed I beleive. What do you all think about the noble bluetick breed? Seems but a few years ago he was herelded injust about every big game hunting story. The famous breeders of the past , Elbert Vaughn, Warren Haslour, Ernest Lee, OO Grant,Al Womack,Julias Sebastion, Guy Ormiston,guess Dave Dean is still around, and some of the Uctmans and Maybe old Buzz raises a pup now and then but it seems that Cameron is the main buzz these days when it comes to the blue dogs in big game circles. What's with that?

Ya forgot Dr Finch of w.va. and his line Mike they too was full ofhate for a coon and big game alike. Finches Blue Drummer Boy back in 60`s went too a hunter in the rockey mtn states and finally got killed by a bear I believe it was and they collectively said about the dog, he was the best biggame hound in that period of time and he allmost came too my house when he was 17 moths old but I had too back outof the deal my dad said no/ Dr. Finch listened and sent me my moneys back/ I all most had a famious bluetick !hahahaha

[Farmhand]

Personally, I think the Blueticks have gained ground in the nite hunt arena in the time that I have been paying attention. This may contribute to their decline in the big game arena. That seems to go hand in hand. The Treeing Walker breed was the first to experience this on a large scale. That is why guys like Spanky and Hershel Joyner and guys like that are working so hard to preserve the bloodlines they have been using successfully. I may set myself up for a beating here, but I think the same thing will happen to the Blueticks, too if the nite hunt crowd influences them as much as they did the Treeing Walker breed in the past twenty or so years. Nite Hunt guys don't want Ol' Towser grubbin' out an old cold one while the clock ticks away. Big game hunters don't have much use for hot nosed, pop-up, tree-happy types so the nite hunt lines don't appeal to them too much. The big game hunters are outnumbered in this, too so they have to stick together to keep their lines together. Just one man's opinion, and it might not matter much to you, but Mike asked, so I gave it up. JMHO

[liontracker]

Another reason may be the way the style of hunting has changed over the years. With all the new roads, cutting a track with a vehicle seems to be the norm. There doesn't seem to be many hunters walking or riding to cut a track. The later type of hunter is more apt to start any age track they cut and need a colder nosed hound. Where as the hunter with a rig can be more choosy as to what track to run. However they will encounter more competition and need fast hounds to catch before the competition cuts in on the race. Although rare and hard to come by, there are some blues out there with an ice cold nose and smokin' fast track speed. To me there is nothing quite like listening to a big 'ole bawl mouthed blue working out a SERIOUS cold trail and then puttin' and end to it.

[roscosrokons]

I would have to agree that since the use of tracking units and Atv's has become more and more popular it seems that the need for a good cold nosed hound has become less important. I still prefer to hunt with a good cold nosed hound over a hot nosed hound. There is nothing more relaxing than sitting and listening to a good bawl mouthed hound working out an old cold trail. Ross

[wingpatch]

you all pretty much got it all right, it aint like it use to be and not many old timers left that injoyed a dog starten a track when they come too it and stayen treed till ya got to him [ maybe the next day ]... like ever thing else things have been made to easy it's took a toll on the dogs and the hunters that hunt um ..but the funny part about it we all still talk and read about the old days and dogs ...

[TRACKER]

I completely disagree with these guys. The hunting remains the same rather your hunting from a truck or a horse. You still will run old tracks regardless. I beleive the latest hounds nose is better than ever. But I also only hunt my dogs, no comp. hunting.

The problem is those OLD STYLE Blueticks are just 2 slow and big. they cant compete with those smaller, faster dogs. Everytime I read about the night hunts its filled with Walkers, funny cause their know for speed. and thats what its all about nowadays. on the mtn. u watch that big ol' boy, he'll be way behind except for that rare 1% track that he'll push better. I'll take 99% over 1% anyday.

I think thats why these breeders of Blueticks and B&T are starting to breed 4 small stature also.

Now that I've trashed these blueticks let me say theres still nothing better than hearing one of those clumsy, goofy, slobering dogs bawling up a bare hillside .

[thomas]

Hey tucker you better read the last post.
That old bluetick bitch you got with over 150 cats to her name would love to read this one.
I don't know how that short legged, barrel chested, long eared, blood shot eyed cameron bread piece of shit ever caught a cat is beyond me.
I guess when she is laid to rest the head stone will read last of a dying breed.
Here lies an old blue tick the end of the true breed of hounds replaced by the next generation cause 1% just aint good enough for this generation. RIP

(That means if she could of caught 99% she would of caught over 1000 cats??)

I would rather be buried between two old worn out, slow, good for nothin, trashy ass, slobbering, loud mouth, bow legged, blue ticks than other breed I have run or will run.
I do like a little cross but don't tell my mama she rased me blue.

[roscosrokons]

The only thing them fast running hot nosed hounds do is screw up the track for a good cold nosed hard tracking dog. From my experience I've had better luck running a cold nosed hound by himself on a tuff track than running him with a hot nosed hound. It seems like the hot nosed hound will blow out like a streak and the next thing you know you catch up to him trying to find the track. Then it takes the cold nosed hound forever to try to straighten the track out just so the hot nosed hound can take off like a streak ahead of him again and screw the track up all over again. This is just my experience I've had with the hounds that I hunt with. Ross

[Dan V]

Mike,
Most of the dogs I tend to see these days in the woods are Walkers, mixed hounds and Plotts in that order. A lot of the bear hunters around here and northern Idaho have Plotts. And most of the guys I know who focus on bobcat hunting have Walkers. Sure they hunt bears and lions with em too, but I just don't see a lot of Blue Tick dogs.

The only Blue Tick I've hunted with recently is Tom Bledsoe's dog Tuck. Tuck is not Blue Tick by breed, he is Blue Tick by color. If I had to look for a Registered Blue Tick Stud dog that was a Western Big Game hound to breed to, I would have to do some looking. They are out there, I just have not seen many.

Thats were the internet would have to come in and I would have to start looking at guys outside my area like Terry Zink in Montana or others who hunt big game with the blue dogs. A guy would have to go hunt with their dogs and see if its what they want.

Who are the guys out here in the west who are currently hunting blues and breeding them?

[larry]

Interesting... I personally would take a blue over a walker any day, but own and prefer the two crossed. Slows down that walker blood and makes feet that can hunt more without troubles. Don't like big dogs, the blues that are smaller and athletic seem to hold up, the big blues and big B/T's, no thanks. Guess if its not brindle then mixed would be my second choice, and blue would be part of that mix.

[BigGameHunter]

I just have to put my worthless 2 cents in here. Based on some of these posts if seems like there is some consenses here that says if a dog is big he is also slow and unathletic. I have to say some of the most unathletic dogs I have seen have been big and small and some of the most athletic dogs have seen have been big and small. I have a BIG B&T Plott cross right now that would know the socks off from anything I have owned in the past(small walkers included) and do it all day long. A big dog does not have to be a slow dog.

When you look at those little walkers darting around on the ground, sure they look fast, but partly because they have to take 5 strides to equal one stride of a big long legged dog. Don't get me wrong, I like the little buggers, I have one now that I would hate to see go; but I just had to interject all big dogs are not slow unathletic dogs.

Just my worthless two cents!

[cecil j.]

I just have to put my worthless 2 cents in here. Based on some of these posts if seems like there is some consenses here that says if a dog is big he is also slow and unathletic. I have to say some of the most unathletic dogs I have seen have been big and small and some of the most athletic dogs have seen have been big and small. I have a BIG B&T Plott cross right now that would know the socks off from anything I have owned in the past(small walkers included) and do it all day long. A big dog does not have to be a slow dog.

When you look at those little walkers darting around on the ground, sure they look fast, but partly because they have to take 5 strides to equal one stride of a big long legged dog. Don't get me wrong, I like the little buggers, I have one now that I would hate to see go; but I just had to interject all big dogs are not slow unathletic dogs.

Just my worthles




Boy, ya sure layed-in on em and Thommas too ! Well don`t hold back now just let er rip !
Ya I kind if have to agree My Vaughn blue dog was 90 lbs and yet he was boot leather soled footed and he hung in just with in 15 ft. or so in the mtns of my 57 lb Smokey River bred Blue dog , and did it 6-8 hrs till they put ha hard hills cat up a tree/ yea I had the big dog come out a time ortwo at most after 7 hrs in some terravly rock beds and he ceawlled back too me and I had too carry him too the truck. He give it all he had though. But
blue dogs and black & tans & redbones they now and then come along fast enoughf too rd. at 20 mph an hr. mile after mile n the mtns and in the vally when they trashed on a deer they run it down and hambstrung it/ I seen several dow that + run down and kill agray fox on the ground and hurd it squeel/ funy though them treeing walkers had pulled the pin and couldn`t hang...I don`t like trash dogs and brake mine, but by GOD if hes goen to trash hed better run it for dear life and show me something and not look sorry at doen it/ a few of thses so called fast dogs (regardless of breed) are so fast they run or out run the flippen game/ hahahaha


jack


two cents!

[Liz ODell]

I think perhaps the Cameron dogs have become so 'famous' because of Del's book and all the years he spent writing in Full Cry. Some people are better than others at marketing dogs and Del's have always been marketed as 'big game' dogs. I have never spent much time around Cameron dogs although I now have a half Cameron half 'my' dogs young dog, he has not been hunted enough yet to say how much I like or don't like him.
I see a decline in the type of bluetick that I personally like. Here in most of the places where I hunt there are alot of times where if you want to run a cat or bear you had better have a dog that can cold trail, and of course that same dog also needs to pick up and move out according to the track condition. What I personally like is a COLD nosed dog that takes his tracks as they come and one that is smart, personable and easy to get along with. I see the competition dogs being bred to be hotter nosed and alot of them are too tree happy and highstrung/rattleheaded for me. Don't get me wrong my dogs have all kinds of 'Nite Ch's' in the background, they mostly came from back east but my original dogs are getting a little long in the tooth and I'm having a hard time finding something to cross their progeny on. It seems all the dogs advertised as cold nosed are usually a little bigger than I like and the size I do like is too hot nosed....hmmmm, whats a girl to do? Keep looking I guess.
I think the PKC money hunt has brought a whole new world to the 'hound fancy' if you like it, well I'm glad for you, but I think it is going to make it harder for those of us that like cold nosed dogs to keep a good gene pool going at least as far as registered dogs go.
I also have to say that there are big dogs that are just as fast or faster than small dogs, there are also big dogs that will day after day out hunt the smaller dogs. I think it has to do with 1; desire, 2; genetics, and 3; conformation (but maybe that would fit into genetics).
I always have to laugh when people make comments about 'big ol blueticks', half the walkers I see people leading around are bigger than my biggest male. That being said though I do wish I could make mine a little smaller as they eat less and you can fit more in the box.
I have had big dogs that were slow and big dogs that were fast, my fastest dog (I'm talking hunting not field trials) is a 72lb male, he is also the fastest dog I have so far owned and that not just 'fast for a bluetick' thats fast for all the dogs of different breeds he gets hunted with.
So yes, I see a decline in the bluetick breed, at least as far as what I'm looking for...

[cecil j.]

I think perhaps the Cameron dogs have become so 'famous' because of Del's book and all the years he spent writing in Full Cry. Some people are better than others at marketing dogs and Del's have always been marketed as 'big game' dogs. I have never spent much time around Cameron dogs although I now have a half Cameron half 'my' dogs young dog, he has not been hunted enough yet to say how much I like or don't like him.
I see a decline in the type of bluetick that I personally like. Here in most of the places where I hunt there are alot of times where if you want to run a cat or bear you had better have a dog that can cold trail, and of course that same dog also needs to pick up and move out according to the track condition. What I personally like is a COLD nosed dog that takes his tracks as they come and one that is smart, personable and easy to get along with. I see the competition dogs being bred to be hotter nosed and alot of them are too tree happy and highstrung/rattleheaded for me. Don't get me wrong my dogs have all kinds of 'Nite Ch's' in the background, they mostly came from back east but my original dogs are getting a little long in the tooth and I'm having a hard time finding something to cross their progeny on. It seems all the dogs advertised as cold nosed are usually a little bigger than I like and the size I do like is too hot nosed....hmmmm, whats a girl to do? Keep looking I guess.
I think the PKC money hunt has brought a whole new world to the 'hound fancy' if you like it, well I'm glad for you, but I think it is going to make it harder for those of us that like cold nosed dogs to keep a good gene pool going at least as far as registered dogs go.





Now I agree to the fact that alot of lines bredout of top PKC blood lines are allagators/ yea, but they a terrably smart and handle too get solo on track & tree up/ thats not the dog power ya pleasure hunt/ TRUE NUFF; but they got plenty of nose power if solo hunted and work a hard grubben-out too track trailen track and tree that same coonmaybe 1 mile or ! an 1/4 mile from were the struck it. It takes 2 things too fall in order if ya wanttoo PKChunt ! A) your dog better not pull the pen & takes + gives pressure ! B) your dog better show 90 % realive coon up when he holds that tree and ya search it! So look for them dogs that tree solo own coon and honestly trail-track and tree real live coon. Buy a puppy out of that same cross of both parents solodo it and solo show very high percentages of live coon sittin up/ then when ya get little jr. andraise andtrain him your self for pleasure hunten/ by GOD ya got something too be proud of !
The trouble with gatthacett dogs or gizzmoe dogs is they are set up for being too smart and bred too hunt in a full class of 4 dog cast draws night after night and ya know ya have too limit a pleasure dog too same few dogs orrunnen trashy butt ass troublesom fighten dogs will turn your good dog just a bad himself.
I handled a black & tan male Mr. Latch in the PKC hunts and he was sired by a full brother of Dark Hollow Tigue (ole Sport) was Latches sire.
Bruce and Johnny Gillium hunt hard, not just in PKC hunts but pleasure hunten 3-4 nights a week/ by GOD Latch was as slick an no pull the pin on a PKC cast as Mr. Anybodys hound and when ya hunt the PKC circutt in Tn./Ky your in there with the roughff stuff on the ground & in the world open hunt later rounds too. Mr. Latch could swithch it over from compitition too pleasure hunt with a same other dog and look like a pleasure dog should look. Its just how ya hunt and why ya huint and there a hound has too learn which way ya need him too act & hunt.( in my humble opennion)

jack







I also have to say that there are big dogs that are just as fast or faster than small dogs, there are also big dogs that will day after day out hunt the smaller dogs. I think it has to do with 1; desire, 2; genetics, and 3; conformation (but maybe that would fit into genetics).
I always have to laugh when people make comments about 'big ol blueticks', half the walkers I see people leading around are bigger than my biggest male. That being said though I do wish I could make mine a little smaller as they eat less and you can fit more in the box.
I have had big dogs that were slow and big dogs that were fast, my fastest dog (I'm talking hunting not field trials) is a 72lb male, he is also the fastest dog I have so far owned and that not just 'fast for a bluetick' thats fast for all the dogs of different breeds he gets hunted with.
So yes, I see a decline in the bluetick breed, at least as far as what I'm looking for...