diiference

[nmplott]

what is the difference between a gascon/old fashion bluetick and the other blue tick?

[Josh Kunde]

I belive it is just an old fashion bluetick, more houndy than normal. just like old fashion B&T's but they dont have a different name lol

[dllhoundcompany]

The Gascon/OFB are large then the normal bluetick. I will steal this from another website just bevote to Gascon hounds. http://www.abgha.org/

The Bluetick is just of the oppsite they are small bread
http://www.abgha.org/intro.htm
Check out there website! AND you will see the diff. Here is a page from the Gascon site!

The American Blue Gascon Hound is fundamentally a superior type of hunting hound capable of adapting to the most rigorous conditions and terrain. The breed displays the excessive traits and characteristics enjoyed by the old Gascon Breeds, including great scenting ability, stamina, agility, ruggedness, perservence, desire, and long deep bawl or bugle voice in the hunting of larger types of tree-bay game. A distinct breed and type similar to no other present breed. These factors must be stressed in a breed evaluation.


GENERAL APPEARANCE AND TYPE


The image that the Gascon hound projects should be that of an aristocratic, powerful animal with a look of intelligence and endurance. This hound is fundamentally a hunting-working dog and possesses those points of dogs that hunt by scent over varied and difficult terrain. Judges are asked by the sponsors to consider with emphasis these facts when evaluating this dog. Honorable scars which are the result of work should not be judged as defects.


HEAD


SKULL:

Large, robust, rather broad, slightly oval at the occiput, very slight traces of loose skin or folds, yet cleanly molded with a very definite stop. Head length to measure 10 to 12 inches in males, 9 to 10 inches in females.

MUZZLE:

Rather long, heavy, with deep square flews. Nostrils large, well developed and always black.

EARS:

Are a characteristic of the breed, long, rather narrow and thin, pointed at the tip, hanging in a roll, neither too low set to give the head a narrow appearance, nor too high giving a cocked or cur appearance. Span across the head should not be less than 24 inches or greater than 28 inches on males. Earspan on females should not be less than 23 inches.

EYES:

Almost round, always dark brown or black, not deep set, and without excess haw.


BODY


NECK:

Should be of medium length, strong and muscular and slightly rounded at prominence and with minimum dewlap.

SHOULDERS:

Powerfully constructed, muscular, somewhat sloping, free of movement.

CHEST:

Large, of considerable depth and breadth denoting stamina and endurance. Minimum girth measurements of males should be 32 inches. Minimum girth measurements of females should be 30 inches.

RIBS:

Well sprung extending well back, tapered full and rounded to provide extra lung capacity.

BACK:

Moderate length sloping somewhat from withers to rump when head is held high. Never swayed or roached, should be strong and muscular.

LOINS:

Muscular, slightly arched, hips broad, never narrow (conducive to dysplasia).

TAIL:

Well haired and attached slightly below back line, of medium length and carried high in a sabre like curve. No flag or rat tail.


LEGS AND FEET


THIGHS:

Well muscled, crop full, curved to point of joining thighs.

QUARTERS:

Broad, well muscled from hip to hock, rather long and sinewy.

STIFLE AND HOCKS:

Moderately bent, straight when viewed from the rear, neither in nor out and only slightly back from underbody when viewed from side.

PASTERNS:

Strong and straight, front leg strong and straight with elbows

FEET:

Deep padded, compact, toes strong, slightly oval to denote speed.


COAT AND COLOR


COAT:

Rather short, but very thick and dense to withstand rough conditions.

COLOR:

Pups are always born white, with a permanent black mark and continue to darken in color to puberty. Acknowledge modern genetical knowledge of heredity and breeding, considerable color variations are prmissible including: all blue, tan trim, and black on blue markings. Markings not to exceed 30% of body color and of numerous and irregular pattern rather than larger spots. Color always of darker shades and including bluetick, roan mottled steelblue, blueblack, bluebrindle or grizzle. Black may be eliminated as well as tan points. A blue blaze covering the muzzle, extending over the head and joining the body blue is preferable. A small oval or round spot at crown of head, surrounded by blue is a mark of the breed.


SIZE


Minimum height for males is 27" to 30" at the shoulder.
Minimum height for females is 25" to 28" at the shoulder.

Minimum weight for males is 90lbs.
Minimum weight for females is 75lbs.

DISQUALIFICATIONS:

Under size, light color, pink skin, poor type, light eyes, too short or poorly set ears, parrotmouth, bird beak, and tough chop voice is not desired but is acceptable on the tree.

[nmplott]

that was like 10x the info I was expecting thank you!

[Mike Leonard]

I don't really like the term Gascon but I guess it has been coined enough that it has become original. My old amigo Al womack was in my opinion the leading breeder and authority on the old fashioned bluetick type hound. The Grande De Blu De Gascogne of France is a distinct breed and has very little effect these days on the selectively bred heavy headed larger blue tick colored tree hounds. I know I will raise a few hackeles with that but E. S. Traverse who is a I know as a leading histoian in old country scent hounds gave me a lot of historical influence to go on. Our modern day treeing walkers may be as closely akin to the European scent as are the old fashioned blue dogs. This is leaving the Talbot and St. Hubert bloodhound out of the mix. These latter two probably have a greater influence on the old fashioned ( gascon) hound than do the Grande De Blue. Some of the early hounds of the pioneers which later influenced the historical packs of famous big game hunters were bred on a much smaller scale and probably retain more of the original blood, but when the cocktail gets diluted down this much who really cares much about having a swig anyway.

If you like big headed houndy dogs get a Gascon or a Majestic, if you like slim trim fast dogs get another, if you like cur dogs get a good cur. And if you by chance run somthing up the tree , then by golly you are pretty lucky so go ahead and enjoy it.

[Big John]

Well said Mike! John

If you like big headed houndy dogs get a Gascon or a Majestic, if you like slim trim fast dogs get another, if you like cur dogs get a good cur. And if you by chance run somthing up the tree , then by golly you are pretty lucky so go ahead and enjoy it.

[kcogar]

Hello,
I have came across 2 pups from Sonny in UT that the buyer had to get rid of ASAP. I have them right now but looking for homes for them. I'm sure they're valuable since they're fairly hard to get a hold of. I'd post my own topic but I need 10 replies before I can do that. I used to post on here a long time ago but I don't use that email anymore.

If you know anyone who'd be interested pls pass the word.

Kristin
-colorado

[lmorgan]

I'm one of those who does agree with the Gascon name. Not particularly because of the Grande Bleu de Gascogne influence (because I believe it is minimal at best and detrimental at worst), but because of something entirely different. A true Gascon of today should probably have no more in common with a standard bluetick than color. They don't look the same, sound the same, or hunt the same (if you're breeding true to standard). In most cases they're not even colored the same since all-blues seem to be the prevelant color scheme for most Gascons. The difference between a Gascon and a Bluetick should be more than size. I'm maybe the world's biggest proponent of big hounds, but if the only difference between a bluetick and a Gascon is size, then somebody missed the mark somewhere.

I still believe size is important, but even more important is a cold nose, bawl mouth, athletic ability, and tree-mindedness. A hound CAN have it all and we should be breeding for the complete package.

I dislike the name Gascon because so many people confuse it with the French Grande Bleu de Gascognne, but I like it because it differentiates our breed from their bluetick ancestors. Just as a Majestic deserves it's own recognition as a free and separate breed, I believe the Gascon deserves just as much.

But what do I know?

[lmorgan]

My old amigo Al womack was in my opinion the leading breeder and authority on the old fashioned bluetick type hound.

Mike,

I'm not sure everyone would agree that Mr. Al was the leading breeder and authority on GASCON hounds, but I doubt anyone would argue that many of the crosses he made found their way into the vast majority of big blue pedigrees today. To say that he was influential in the Old Fashioned Bluetick scene would probably be an understatement. He is still revered and respected throughout the big blue ranks.

What we may be missing is that there are two prevailing trains of thought in the big blue world: one (and I think Al Womack would have agreed), is that the big blue was a throw-back to the bluetick hounds of old and deserved to be preserved as a strain of bluetick coonhound. The other is that while we owe our very existence to the bluetick breed, the Gascon of today has morphed into something different than just an old strain of bluetick and has earned its place as a separate breed.

I don't get involved in hound politics much anymore, but the last time I checked, there were even two organizations to serve both camps. The Old Fashioned Bluetick Association for the Al Womack-leaning ideologies and the American Blue Gascon Hound Association for those who lean the other.

Not that either should be exclusive of the other. We're all in this together and, in the end, we'll all need each other to keep the big blue hounds preserved and hunting.

[driftwood blue]

Very well put Larry.
and some folks should read the standards again and note the disqualifications.... light eyes etc.

[nmplott]

do they tree well.... I have heard they tree like a majestic or lets say lack of treeing instince

[driftwood blue]

in reply to the question from nmplott regarding do they tree well,I will give my thoughts...
i have hunted with hounds since 1959... in the time span from 1964 to 1971 I had lots of personal experiences with most all breeds so that you know where some of my thinking comes from.

like all breeds there are differences in bloodlines in the way they work... there have been a good number of self serving people who were raising dogs and passing them off as Gascons that were not hunters..... indeed they did produce a few that did make coonhounds and big game hounds.. and a good number that had a hard time finding their feed. from your identy it would indicate that you are a plott fancier.. well I did own 7 of them in that time span from 64 to 71.. they were somewhat less than desireable in the woods where it counts.... and they came from different breeders....one of whom wrote great columns...-- Eddie Weber of Great Bend Ks had a very good Plott named Bruno.... I believe out of Berlin King's hounds.
I tried some B&T pups some would tree but not trail... some would trail but not tree.....and there are some grand B&T dogs Just not the ones I got
walkers__ I seen some good ones but they were not what I was looking for after seeing the old hounds that Don Williams had

like I said a lot depends on the bloodlines you select.. good and sorry in all breeds and bloodlines.Unless you do your homework you are bound for disapointment.
as a note there were some FRENCH Gran Belu de Gascognes imported in 1975 and crossed on several of the BIG OLD type UKC registered Blueticks.
the results were a whole lot less than desireable.. they would trail but few would tree....... the French Stock hounds had been bred for many generations as trailing stock for hunting deer, Hares and boars... that type of breeding is not intended to produce tree hounds. there may have been some of those crosses mixed in to the purebred Big Bluetick by some unscrupulous "breeders" but for the most part I think that stuff has eliminated itself.
that also in essence is what one may note in the Majestics.. the bloodhound crosses that are the basics for how some are breeding are not really noted for treeing--- the coonhound stock is added to add that trait. and until one figures out the percentage of Genetics it takes to stabilize a "stock" of traits in hounds they will surely be walking in dissapointment. Plus I think in Mike Leonard's writings he has noted that some of the bloodlines of Bloodhounds tend to be silent on trail....again by crossing on an open trailing coonhound that trait can be covered up... but not eliminated

Now If you truly want to see the most awsome display of TRACKING and Trailing ability you will ever see, get you a hand full of $$ and take a trip to Ohio and hunt with Bruce Hanna and his Sasquatch female and his Axil male I seen Sasquatch 3 years ago at 14 months old... she was great then... and on Oct 5th this year I had the pleasure of seeing her and Axil together.

I have never seen anything equal to them in any breed...

in general the Big Blue hounds that trace their origins to the O.O. Grant and Jocasse Valley and some of the Vaughn stock dogs do indeed tree well. But one must keep in mind that it only takes a few generations of not being proven in the woods to loose that trait.
in summary;
to lump all dogs in a given breed as Poor tree dogs or poor track dogs is
akin to calling Charles Manson a good citizen.

[bearman]

could'nt had said it any better myself Don! just kidding.

Tiny

[sasquatch]

..

[coondawg1972]

larry morgan i've often wondered where you been now i know your here giving lectures. if you haven't figured it out yet this is your old buddy paul allen come on out of them la swamps and lets tree some south ga coons i got my pack back togethier and i'm only hunting five nights a week so i've slowed down some you should be able to keep up .