Great Houndsmen

Coyote · Post by **Coyote** » Tue Dec 23, 2008 12:55 am

My buddy and I were out cutting roads the other and got into the discussion of great houndsmen. He made the remark that the greatest houndsmen are always going to be the guys that were born into it and have been raising hounds since they were kids. I was wondering what everyone else's opinion on this was. Personally I think a guy in his 20's or even 30's can become a great houndsmen with the right work ethic and desire.

dsdogman · Post by **dsdogman** » Tue Dec 23, 2008 2:10 am

I would agree with you. I think if a person works hard and has a game plan with what they want to acomplish with there hounds they can become a great houndsmen.

arizonabeagle · Post by **arizonabeagle** » Tue Dec 23, 2008 3:43 am

long as you know what the hell your doin
maybe got some freinds that'll help you out along the way like i do
you can be one that people tell stories about long after your gone
just gotta have desire, like a good hound

over the three years i been at this whole dog thing i've noticed guys and their dogs have a lot in common

nmplott · Post by **nmplott** » Tue Dec 23, 2008 5:23 am

I would agree with the original posting about 75-85%, they are the ones who grew up with it, but then there are the ones who have the game plan, some of the money (as we all know this spor costs money), the desire and hopefully the education to do so. We see a lot of people try this sport out buy a dog or two, some tracking equipment, shock collars and go and try to do it, they can not handle the disappointment and then they are gone, sold out but there is that 15-25 percent that flourish and those are selfmade houndsmen.

Mr.pacojack · Post by **Mr.pacojack** » Tue Dec 23, 2008 2:08 pm

I think you will not find the Great Houndsmen made today like you have stated. In todays world there is not enough game and too many other houndsmen in the feild looking for the same game. Not as easy to make a great hound and a great houndsmen as yesteryear.

Liz ODell · Post by **Liz ODell** » Tue Dec 23, 2008 4:16 pm

Pacojack I agree, that combined with the fact that we are all expected to have a 'real' job and a 'real' 'life' can ad up to not as much time in the woods as you really need to make dogs. I have noticed a big difference since I had to get a 'real' job...used to get laid off by Thanksgiving. Almost everyday I used to be in the woods at that time - now hubby says I must go to work - then complains when he thinks the dogs don't do good enough. To which all I can say is "honey, they sure were alot better back when I didn't work all year".

Another factor over the past few years has been weather, it used to snow in medium amounts for along time and you could get out in the woods now it snows alot at one time and you are shut down every winter. So no, I'd have to say the days of the old timers that hunted and thats all they did are pretty much over for most of us. There are some guides that still do it but it seems like most of them are not smart enough to figure out that if they keep killing every goddamn critter that climbs a tree...well their days in the woods are numbered as well

.

Mike Leonard · Post by **Mike Leonard** » Tue Dec 23, 2008 4:38 pm

True greatness is very hard to measure. I agree with pacojack and Liz the world around the houndmen has changed dramatically since our heros's time. But some of the greatest houndsmen I ever met never treed a lion or bear in their life.

So is it the numbers of critters they caught, the exploits they did, or is it the people they helped along the way?

I don't know just asking.

“If a man has any greatness in him, it comes to light, not in one flamboyant hour, but in the ledger of his daily work.”

—Beryl Markham

nmplott · Post by **nmplott** » Tue Dec 23, 2008 5:03 pm

I think the biggest factor is adaptability. If a person can adapt his methods to the current times the outcome it self will be increased. With every psychology class I have taken I have been able to extract something and incorporate it in my hounds, with every biology class I have taken I have done the same but I have been able to apply that to my horses and cattle as well. The question I would like to ask is has the game animal itself adapted and changed? Meaning do you think they are smarter now or 100 years ago.

Ike · Post by **Ike** » Tue Dec 23, 2008 6:37 pm

That's some good insight that Leonard has given about the measure of a man and his greatness. I'm sure each of us has a different measuring stick for the values or accomplishments we'd like to see in a person that is considered a "Great Houndsmen." And surely there is a combination of things a man must do to impress me, and that's his ability as a trainer, a hunter, the respect he has for the game he hunts, how he treats others, how he treats his hounds and most probably how he treats his friends and family..............

If a person is self centered and brushes off their responsibilities in life to family and friends while only looking after their own interests, then it would be hard for me to hold or elevate that person to a high level or consider them great!

ike

Cold Track · Post by **Cold Track** » Tue Dec 23, 2008 8:02 pm

Great post Ike. As for some of the other answers I have to disagree. There is less game now a days, but just because people aren't hunting every single day like the hunters of old doesn't mean there aren't great houndsmen now. Yes there is also more competition out there, but the guys killing big bucks today I think are better deer hunters than the ones of old as there are far fewer big bucks around and less numbers of deer period they have adapted and learned more about finding them as there is more knowledge spread out to be leanred. I think houndsmen in a way have done the same, there is more wide spread knowledge, more better bred dogs to be had, and more poductive ways to get to and find the game. Yeah sure there may not be any Ben Lily's and Lee Brothers and other such greats around , but those were better days as a hunter than these. I know of a few guys that them and their dogs can get it done anywhere, in any condition, and have knowledge and sense about game to compete with anyone as a great houndsmen and that's what I think they are. JMO

briarpatch · Post by **briarpatch** » Tue Dec 23, 2008 9:07 pm

Not many great houndsmen are great family men........not many great family men are great houndsmen....what are your priorities????....I am a little ashamed of mine looking back over the years!

briarpatch

Liz ODell · Post by **Liz ODell** » Tue Dec 23, 2008 10:20 pm

You all have good points about what makes a 'great houndsman', I guess I answered in the simplest of terms. What I was thinking of in answer was the houndsmen I can think of that make me think "dang, I wish I could have lived that life". Born a hundred years too late I guess...as far as great houndsmen nowadays I guess I'd have to pick someone that raises their own dogs from the breeding to the grave, trains their own dogs, consistently catches game with those dogs (which requires time in the woods as you only get back what you put in) and LOVES and RESPECTS the dogs and game pursued. I think thats what seperates the true houndman from the hunter. Thats my 2 cents worth.

Ike · Post by **Ike** » Tue Dec 23, 2008 11:37 pm

You've got a great point there Cold Track about our times producing a more technical sound deer and big game hunter. There wasn't a place for hunters a hundred years ago to share ideas about the hounds they hunt or the game they pursued. In fact, the knowledge many of those guys had about others, game in other places or the land was indeed very limited. But look at us today, as we can share photos in minutes of places all over the country that we hunt, look at maps, look at bear or lion densities, and yes see videos of hounds we might have an interest in.

It is true that the hunters of old had no limits on killing, and could take whatever they could catch. I remember reading a book about lion hunting where the author found five lion tracks in one place, a tom, a bitch and two or three kittens. The story went on to tell how the houndsman knew the female and kittens would be the easiest, so he set his dogs after them, ran them all four down and killed them. After that he supposedly set his dogs after that tom lion and ran it down and killed it as well. I guess that story was suppose to impress us; however, if one of us did the same today and then bragged about it on the Internet, other hounddoggers wouldn't have much good to say about us............

True most of us will never legally have the opportunity to run down a sow bear, kill it and take the cub home to raise and train pups with. Neither will we ever get the chance to do that with a lion. But if that was what made the hunters of old great in some people's eyes then I don't suppose any of us will ever impress them...........

Ike

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Coyote · Post by **Coyote** » Wed Dec 24, 2008 3:23 am

When I started this thread, my thoughts of a great houndsmen (in the short time I have been around this sport) was a person who always had well trained, loyal dogs that would chase the devil to hell and back if he asked them too. He would also have the respect of fellow houndsmen; not so much well known but respected in all the circles. After reading some of these great posts, I realize there is still much to learn.

arizonabeagle · Post by **arizonabeagle** » Wed Dec 24, 2008 4:43 am

a great houndsmen is not the man that lives in the woods, and has killed every varmit he's come across and had his name all over magazines and recognized around the world

to me its much more than that
he is a man with dedication unlike anything people have seen,
a great houndmen is a man with knowledge, of the game he and his hounds pursue..he is a man who practices animal conservation and knows to leave behind animals so he and his dogs, as well as other hunters, can have future sucess in the feild, he knows his dogs well and treats them like they are worth something, in return they will give their lives for him no matter what,he takes pride in all he does, whether in the feild, at home or at work, he dosent spend everywaking hour in the woods tryin to pound down everything just for a kill, he knows the importance of getting other people involved in an ever dieing sport, and he is never afraid to share his wealth of knowledge, he fights for his and other hunters rights, and truly dedicates him self to ever evolve as a better, more effeicient hunter..

i have yet to become any type of "houndsmen"
i am a man with hounds...but i damn sure hope someday i'll have a spot in the history of this great sport of ours,not too be famous, or a master killer, but because its something i love and will continue to pour my heart and soul into until i die, no matter what the cost