Largest lions you have heard of documented.

[Mike Leonard]

I know we got into a long discussion on the biggest lions we ever caught. I would like to know what is the largest lion you have ever heard of or seen documented.

I have a fine old book( Puma Mysterious American Cat) bu Edwards and Young, that was more of a scientific study on the lions done with the US Biological Survey, Smithsonean Institute and various State agencies over a long period from early to mid 1900's.

As we know the lion that held the first place record for man, many years was killed by President Teddy Roosevelt in Rio Blanco, county, Colorado near Meeker. The did extensive weighing and measuring of all the cats taken on this hunt and the largest one being this record cat weighting I believe 212 or 221 pounds. I will go back and check my records but there were numerous cats listed heavier than this one.



so what have you all seen?

[chilcotin hillbilly]

There has been 2 wieghed over the years from my area. I wasn't there to verify but one was 240 the other 242, I have seen one bigger in pictures that wasn't wieghed that the same fellow caught that he thought may go 265. the biggest I have wieghed was 219.I used to hunt with D.E Schuk And the world record cat he figured wieghed one 160 ish. Age I believe is the biggest factor, I have little pressure here and the average age of toms I harvest is 5 or 6 years old. The average wieght about 185.

[Mike Leonard]

Excellent disertation and I concur. Many times age is a factor however with the scoring method in place they still get their rightful due.Bone grows but doesn't shrink as tissue does.

[liontracker]

Damn Mike, right again...Page 53 - This Arizona puma was killed near Hillside, Arizona, in March, 1917, by the late government predatory animal hunter, J.R. Patterson. The 276 pounds given as the weight of this creature was ascertained " after the intestines had been removed... He measured 8 ft., 7 3/4 in., from the tip of his nose to the tip of his tail..." (Seton, Earnest Thompson. 1929: 39.)

Obviously, us modern Lion hunters aint seen big yet... kind of like the 400+ bulls in the "Book". That Tom had to be over 300 lbs on the hoof...Genetics+Food+Security= World Record.

CH...any room left up there for a "good neighbor" ?

[Mike Leonard]

Pretty amazing Hillside is just west of Prescott. Still not a lot there but back then I imagine it was just a stopping place for the mail pickup and maybe supplies. Arizona was pretty wild and wooley back in them days and that old lion probably ate his share of rustled beef. LOL!

[Brianshounds]

iv cought a cat that measured 9 ft and didnt weigh much at all. maby 125-130 # i think he had been walking for females and burned off all his extra weight.... but he had a good skull he when very good into the book. That is the measurement that counts!!!! iv also killed several cats that where scaled weight at 180-190# and didnt make the book but they where full of elk or deer. its funny how it veries with every cat. and it has a lot to do with the genetics in the country you are hunting. some places iv hunted a 120# cat will go P&Y almost every time and other places it takes a huge cat to make book.

[Big Mike]

Mike, your 227lber is the biggest i heard of that is documented. You got Pictures, scale weighed, and witnesses cant document much better than that!

[Mike Leonard]

Big Mike,

He was a big old guy and you would think a cat like that couldne't slip right by two guys setting there on their horses watching but he did. He was jumped out of his lay up after a long grueling cold trail and we had all but given up hope. One dog made the difference that day, just too bad it was his last day. But when he came up over the rim he had to go right out by us within a 100 yards the way the dogs running jumped came and he went right out over a big sage flat that had only scattered little juniper trees. Why he did what he did I don't know but usually on a big lion once they jump they don't go very far and these dogs went plumb out of hearing. When we finally found them and crawled down to where they had him treed, we were shocked at his size. My oldest son was with me and he had taken a grand B&C tom the year before so he had seem some pretty big lions in his days. He said holy crap Dad if that thing had a mane I would think we were in Africa!


But I know bigger and longer lions have been taken and documented.

I got to thinking about those super sized jaguars in the Mato Grosso and Pantanal regions in Brazilo and Bolivia. Why are they allmost twice the size of average adult jaguars from Mexico? As I re-read the book of Tony De Almieda he emphasized the super abundance of food these tigres had over the generations. They never go hungry becasue the high protein 100 pound plus water dwelling swamp rodents are all over and a favorite food. Also this is a huge livestock region and cattle are abundant as well.

Maybe like the super sized Kodiak Bears who are really a giant sized sub species of Griz. who dined forever on the salmon until they evolve into a super species.

Not sure about lions but it has to be a genetic thing that produces these super body sized cats.

[Yaak attack]

Mike, I have the same book you mentioned. There is a picture in tha book of a 210 pound plus lion that is clearly a bald faced lie. Folks have been lying about this stuff for a hundred years or more. A 276 pound gutted lion would weigh 300 ponds. I personally don't think it happened. Like I said earlier I may not know everything, but I know a little. Nine foot lions are like bears that stand ten feet tall on their hind legs. People that have studied anotomy know how ridiculous such claims are.

[Yaak attack]

I dug my old copy of the book out. It states T. Roosevelt's cat was 227lbs. and 96". Mike, if you would, scan and post page 69. It shows a 217lb. cat that was gutted and weighed three days after being killed. It also shows a 209lb. cat killed in 1921. This book has many charts showing skull measurements and body weights from cats across the western hemisphere. This was the difinitive natural history book on mountain lions in 1946. This book has "documented" weights that are clearly false. At what point does common sense take hold?

[Mike Leonard]

I doubt if Roosevelt's lion was a mistake he was clearly known to be truthful and accurate when it came to hunting. In reality his process of hunting was more like collecting and nature study and he was well knows for that from boyhood.

That being said I don't know how we could collaborate of refute any of the printed matter or photos in this book. I mean we can give our opinions and just like you I can't bring myself to beleive in that 276 pound gutted lion. But how will we ever know? I can scan but I don't know about posting on this site. If soembody else can do this go ahead and help us out.

[liontracker]

Damn Yaak, you are one tough sell! I know of three different Lions taken in the last 6 yrs. that were too big for a mountain lion form and had to be mounted on an african lion form. Have you ever mounted one that big?

[Yaak attack]

Why don't you post some pictures. Hey, maybe you could give us some idea of the length and girth of the cats you are speaking about. I can't say for sure, but I would be willing to bet you have not mounted a cat with the measurements of the Colorado state record. By the way, what do you use for teeth in those cats you are putting on African lion forms?

[liontracker]

I am not a taxidermist, not sure where you got that idea. No idea what teeth they used.
I already posted the CO state record on the other thread with Mikes big lion. I could find out who did the taxidermy and ask for length and girth measurements. All I am saying is that there are more 200+ lbs lions out there than most people know about. Hell, when I told Del Cameron we were killing 200lb. toms he didn't believe it either, because the biggest he had ever killed was 187 lbs, and he has killed as many, or maybe more, than any man alive today. Then two years later Brian Williams killed the new CO state record and it was way over 200lbs.

[tntoutfitting]

Hmmmmm, didnt YOU mount that Colorado record cat Yaak? I thought you did but dont remember....... this is gonna get good, stay tuned!