BIG GAME BREEDING

[Jordan Run Walkers]

Mike,
I was able to buy Lyle's White Cloud Star when Bobby Lyles sold out. She was only 1 1/2 when I got her and man what a trail and tree dog. She is all White Cloud on top and mostly Nance on the bottom. Bred her to a Noct. Nailer bred male and they weren't worth a plug nickel. Crossed her with a Spring Creek Rock male and they turned out great. Have made that cross three times and all real good. Never had this cross slick tree and are real independant when they get to the tree. Doesn't matter what the others are doing, if the game is in the tree they will tree.

[DWD58]

travis....can you explain what you were talking about on Clinton giving the tribes soviergnty? I am part Cherokee and it pisses me off that they closed the rolls back in the 60s in the cherokee tribe. I mean,,,who else can close the rolls to their family? either you are part of the tribe or you aint. Course now it is all about the gambling money. That is about all the Cherokee worry about. they got a gold mine and they dont want anyone else on the golden tit.

[Travis Stirek]

DW can't remember exactly what year but Clinton signed an executive order,that in my opinion is unconstitutional,basicly making each recognized tribe a soveriegn nation.This is is what I mean by unconstitutional.I can't recall exactly where in the constitution but I seem to recall it is against the constitution to create a nation inside this nation.Don't get me wrong I'm not against the tribes being able to govern themselves,I'm just pointing out constitutional unclarities,although I'm sure plenty of lawyers looked it over before Slick Willie signed it.LOL

[mike martell]

jordan run, you are one of the lucky ones, the one's i had with any nance did not tree a lick, i culled out around 25 of them, i think it stems from two separate families of dogs. i personally know of another 25 w.c.crossed to nance none of them tree either, guys give me hell ,as one guy says his are coming on at 4 years old, when i don't see improvements by one year, they are culled ,not traded or sold, culled, i'm glad your's crossed well with nance, spring creek rock , i'm now fifty, i don't have time to gamble, i breed the family of dogs to the same family only, that way i know what has worked since 1927 will probably work for as long as i continue to hunt, thanks for the feed back,

[mike martell]

hey ,separate topic !! i don't want any part of the golden tit, i want to hunt the res!!!! i have been enrolled since 1957,

[kickemall]

Since we're thread jacking, why can I go on the reservation and gamble but I can't go on there to hunt?

[mike martell]

that is to keep us indians off welfare,thanks for your support !!!!

[david]

I grew up on the Yakima Indian Reservation. My dad was the missionary at the log church that still stands there. I got blonde hair and blue eyes, but if I opened my bedroom window on a summer night durring the pow wow's I could hear the drums and singing. After watch the young men dance, I would go back to my room and late at night when I was supposed to be asleep, I would war dance to the pow wow drums.

I could not go into the foot hills of Mt Adams though. They were off limits to folks who looked like me. It's the way it should be. May it always be.

On the subject of competition coon dogs:

Every once in awhile, I get a message asking if I was that preacher kid that had that "line" of dogs J Young, and jcathunter still talk about out in Oregon.

Well it wasn't really a line when I had it, it was just a male and female that I scoured the U.S. to find. I was dumb enough to think that if I studied breeding enough, and then studied dog lines enough, I could go out and buy the two best pups in the world with line breeding potential, breed them together and then get the best litter of pups in the world.

Sometimes being dumb enough to think something like that pays off.
I didn't have any dog people in my family or in my life to tell me "forget about it".

I put the male in the hands of a bear hunter to hunt on bear, and the dog became a phenom. He didn't look fast, but was always in the lead by anywhere from a few minutes to a full day because he had the bggest heart and was always the last one to quit. Most folks didn't have telemetry yet, and he was sometimes eventually found the second day or so still barking treed even though his voice was gone. If he was not found, he would be out on about the third day looking like death warmed over: so gaunt and stiff it looked like he would tip over, with absolutely no voice left, because he never took a moment to stop treeing and swollow once in awhile.

I paid $400.00 for that pup in 1979. His dad was Finley River Banjo who was dead by the time the pup was born. Killed on the road outside Mac's ranch.
His mom was a daughter of the Spring Creek Rock X Dahoneys Cadillac that Mac owned.

All coon dogs. Competition coon dogs.

The female I bought was a daughter out of Minklers Kansas Rock, a direct son of Spring Creek Rock and an amazing dog himself.

Coon dogs.

We sold the male to a bear hunter in New York named Terry Merrit for $4,000 around 1983 or so. Terry advertised the dog at stud in Full Cry as "Mckenzie River Banjo" A bear dog stud. But really, a

Coon dog.

The pups from that cross went to bear hunters in Washington, Oregon, California, and Montana. 25 years later there are still folks that Say their dogs have some of that in it, and I get emails saying "I got some of the last of 'your old bloodline' " All of them are bear hunters and cat hunters.
They describe the strengths and weaknesses and they sound like the same dogs.

Coon dogs.

I take no credit for those dogs, although it seems people want to give me credit. I did not develop them, I did not maintain them. I just got lucky with my two...

Coon dogs

Thanks to J Young and others for keeping that alive. Thanks to those who have contacted me about 'my old blood'. I dont deserve the credit that title gives me. thanks for the complimentary storys you tell of me, even though I was just a kid preacher that spent way too much time in the coast hills hunting bobcat with his...

Coon dogs.

I had to add an editors note on myself: I look at stuff I write sometimes and wonder what in the world I am doing. I think just listening to myself talk. I noticed I been talking to myself alot in my truck lately too. might not be a good sign.

Part of the problem is, i am in the library, and they rush me to finish up.

I guess the thread is not about big game bred dogs any more, but if it was, I might say: I am not a big game hunter, unless you count bobcat as big game, but the dogs I described above did not satisfy me for bobcat, so I am on both sides of the point. I guess they satisfied someone.

[cecil j.]

travis....can you explain what you were talking about on Clinton giving the tribes soviergnty? I am part Cherokee and it pisses me off that they closed the rolls back in the 60s in the cherokee tribe. I mean,,,who else can close the rolls to their family? either you are part of the tribe or you aint. Course now it is all about the gambling money. That is about all the Cherokee worry about. they got a gold mine and they dont want anyone else on the golden tit.

I too couldn`t get tribal regestry and my ancestry escaped from the trail of tears march through Tn./Ky. and when told too sight the big book in the indian territorys in Ark. now days it was allready a yr too late. The nations called us renigades and the calverly didn`t want some of our blood line too get in the books and infact too some out and killed em so they wouldnt and non of their desendents to be in the book. Now the nativer american indians don`t wan part skins in the tribes and successfully lobbyed against it/ all my heritage of native american blood is in my DNA but is no more of the tribes and thats how they want it I guess ?



Cecil Jack Pepper
son of Cecil pepper sr., gd son of Phill, gt gd son of George, gt gt gdson of Carroll !
but no more of the indian nations as we wasent allowed in the big book !

[DWD58]

I went down and hunted on the reservation with some of the "Full Bloods" that didnt have much cherokee running through their veins as I did and didnt look near as much as I do, but their names were on the rolls before 1960s and that is what counts. It is a screwed up system that is just there to keep a few on the golden tit and keep everyone else out.

[Blackwater Plotts]

DW ~ You're always suckin' the hind tit aren't ya?

[Christy]

Since we're thread jacking, why can I go on the reservation and gamble but I can't go on there to hunt?

BECAUSE BY GOING ON THERE TO GAMBLE THEY HAVE SOMETHING TO GAIN, YOUR $.

AND TRUST ME, I LIVE 15 MINUTES AWAY FROM CHEROKEE, AND I CAN HONESTLY SAY THAT 75% OF THEM DONT GIVE A DARN ABOUT ANYTHING BUT THAT PER CAP CHECK AND THE CASINO.

DONT GET ME WRONG, THEY'RE JUST LIKE COONDOGS, THERE ARE GOOD ONES AND BAD ONES IN EVERY BUNCH.



BACK TO THE BREEDING THREAD......

ABOUT DOGS CHECKING TREES.......THIS IS THE REASON WHY SID HASNT GRNTCH A LONG TIME AGO.

HE CHECKS HIS TREE AS WELL, AND HE WONT STAY WITH A MEAN DOG EITHER. SO IF HE'S NOT GETTING MINUSED FOR LEAVING BEAUSE OF AN AGGRESSIVE DOG, HE'S GETTING MINUSED FOR BEING OFF THE TREE WHEN HE'S CHECKING IT.

NOW WHEN THE DOGS ARE NOT RIGHT IN FRONT OF YOU AND THEY HAVE TO GO AWAY TO GET THE COON, OR THEY CAST HAS TO WALK AWAYS TO GET TO THEM, THEN THERE IS NO PROBLEM, BECAUSE HE'S ALREADY CHECKED HIS TREE AND EITHER SETTLED OR MOVED ON.

[DWD58]

Yea, it sure looks that way Alan. It must be from hanging around you and Jay.

[cecil j.]

Since we're thread jacking, why can I go on the reservation and gamble but I can't go on there to hunt?

BECAUSE BY GOING ON THERE TO GAMBLE THEY HAVE SOMETHING TO GAIN, YOUR $.

AND TRUST ME, I LIVE 15 MINUTES AWAY FROM CHEROKEE, AND I CAN HONESTLY SAY THAT 75% OF THEM DONT GIVE A DARN ABOUT ANYTHING BUT THAT PER CAP CHECK AND THE CASINO.

DONT GET ME WRONG, THEY'RE JUST LIKE COONDOGS, THERE ARE GOOD ONES AND BAD ONES IN EVERY BUNCH.



BACK TO THE BREEDING THREAD......

ABOUT DOGS CHECKING TREES.......THIS IS THE REASON WHY SID HASNT GRNTCH A LONG TIME AGO.

HE CHECKS HIS TREE AS WELL, AND HE WONT STAY WITH A MEAN DOG EITHER. SO IF HE'S NOT GETTING MINUSED FOR LEAVING BEAUSE OF AN AGGRESSIVE DOG, HE'S GETTING MINUSED FOR BEING OFF THE TREE WHEN HE'S CHECKING IT.

NOW WHEN THE DOGS ARE NOT RIGHT IN FRONT OF YOU AND THEY HAVE TO GO AWAY TO GET THE COON, OR THEY CAST HAS TO WALK AWAYS TO GET TO THEM, THEN THERE IS NO PROBLEM, BECAUSE HE'S ALREADY CHECKED HIS TREE AND EITHER SETTLED OR MOVED ON.

I need too get me a full hide on the rezz and live there and hunt and have her keep house and let her go too the rezz and I`ll be just fine, all I need is my own bedroom and for her too be kind to an older man who is kind but might be a tire chaser now that I`m over the hill !hahaha ! I don`t smoke, don`t drink don`t do drugs and I like TV and could mow the lawn and water it !

[mike martell]

DAVID, I DON'T NEED NO INTRODUCTION TO MC KENZIE RIVER BANJO, HE WAS CROSSED TO A DOG CALLED LOST VALLEY RAINBOW, THAT PRODUCED A DOG CALLED CASCADE CRICKET, SHE WAS THE MOTHER TO MY KATE DOG, ALL COON DOG BLOOD ,I GREW UP IN SWEET HOME OREGON, I MOVED TO WALLOWA OREGON IN 1991 TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THE HUNTING, I HAVE A FRIEND THERE WHO HUNTED A LINE OF DOGS FROM HAROLD DICKERSON , THE LINE WAS THAT OF WOODS CREEK LOOSE BRUCE, HAROLD WAS PROMOTING HIS DOGS THRU MARK AT THE TIME IF YOU CAN REFERENCE SOME OLD FULL CRYS , YOU WILL SEE HAROLD WITH MARK, MY OLD HUNTING PARTNER HELPED MARK WITH HIS GUIDE SERVICE, SO I GOT TO ROAD TEST SOME OF THE BRUCE LINE ,I PICKED UP A DOG CALLED AMOS , A DIRECT SON OF BRUCE, LOOKED JUST LIKE OLD BRUCE, BUT HAD A REAL TIGHT MOUTH, WHEN YOU HEARD HIM , HE WAS LOOKING AT A BEAR, ALOT OF THE GAME I SKINNED HAD BITE MARKS FROM THE BASE OF TAIL TO THE HEELS, I CROSSED THESE TWO DOGS SEVERAL TIMES, THEY PRODUCED TOP NOTCH DOGS, AS YOU KNOW WE WERE BANNED IN 1994, MY LAST HUNT WAS DEC, 1 1994 4 DAYS LATER WE HAD FILLED OUT THREE HUNTERS WITH THREE NICE TOM LIONS, WHEN I GOT HOME I PLACED AN AD IN FULL CRY AND SOLD THEM TO A HUNTER IN WA, STATE , AS I JUST KNEW IF I HAD THEM AROUND I WOULD BE HUNTING THEM, WELL AFTER A SHORT TIME I WANTED TO GET BACK INTO DOGS , LOOKING AROUND I HAD NO LUCK FINDING ANY OF MY OLD BLOOD, THAT SUCKED AS I WAS NOT WILLING TO SETTLE FOR SECOND RATE, MY QUEST TOOK ME ACROSS THE U.S. LOOKING, THAT IS WHEN I DISCOVERED THE WHITE CLOUD DOGS, WHAT A TOUGH ROAD THAT WAS, I FINALLY GOT AQUAINTED WITH SOME GUYS WHO BEEN AROUND THE ORIGINAL LINE AND KNEW THERE STUFF, AS YOU SEE MOST OF THOSE DOGS IN MY OPINION HAD BEEN OUTCROSSED, PRODUCING A BUNCH OF JUNK DOGS, COINCIDENTALLY, THESE DONT HAVE NO COON DOG BLOOD IN THEM, IT HAS TAKEN SOME TIME BUT WE AS A GROUP HAVE FINALLY GOT SOME DECENT TYPE DOGS GOING, SO BETWEEN MY OLD DOGS , NEW DOGS, AND SOME BLOOD LINES I SEE POSTED ON HERE , IT SEEMED LIKE A FUN TOPIC TO DISCUSS, DOES THE NAME NICKERSON SOUND FAMILIAR TO YOU? AS I REMEMBER RICHARD SOLD TERRY MERRIT A DOG BACK IN THE DAY, AS WELL AS BILL DWYER, MAYBE YOU CAN FILL IN THE BLANKS FOR ME,