What are your thought on this?

[Rockcreek]

Mike- The big Tom might have ate the smaller dude, for scratching his mug and biting his ear off. Maybe hasn't ever even met the other big Tom.

Take care.

[Ike]

Ive found that cougars eat the weak,strong, old, young, middleclass of just about anything they can catch.

I agree with what Big Mike is saying, other than I don't figure a healthy lion has any problem killing prey. Most of the kills I've found there was very little chase (if any) and the deer or elk was nearly dead in it's tracks. Lions pretty much move around as they please and take what they want in good elk and deer country. The only lions that I've seen running thin or gaunt were animals that came out of the high country in a deep snow winters or one that has recently been injured.

ike

[Catman]

A few years ago I turned loose on a lion to do some pup training. This ended up being a tom, but that is beside the point. After I turned loose the dogs trailed off into a canyon opening good, then all at once they shut up. I listened for a bit and after a minute or two they moved out again. Anyway I decided to walk off in that canyon, I followed the lion and dog tracks and was walking along when I came upon a yearling calf elk that had been shot in the hind quarters probably from one of our late cow elk hunts. Anyway this elk hadn't moved for days....it had eaten all of the brush, grass, and whatever else it could find within about 20' of itself. That lion had walked right up to the elk...turned around and walked on its way. I figured that this lion had a perfect opportunity right there to catch a very easy meal, but chose to go on instead. I think lions like very fresh meat....not tainted....not sick. That's my own opinion, but I have yet to find a lion kill where the animal taken looked to be sick or broken down. I'm sure under the right circumstances unhealthy or older lions will take whatever they can catch. Lions seem to be supreme predators taking almost any animal they want from porcupines to horses and even moose. Pretty much I think if they want it...they get it

[Mike Leonard]

Healthy adult lions sure don't have any problem killing that is for sure. As we can see from Tony's draft horse they don't let a little size bother them either.

I have seen where subs have botched kill or two and had quite a rodeo getting a deer down but usually even those cats get er done in the end
Toms kill matter of factly it seems, I mean there is very little drama in it even on elk if it is a big tom. I mean boom and it is a done deal. I have never seen a moose kill because we don't have them but I have seen cattle, horses, deer, antelope, elk, sheep, goats. llamas, donkeys, pigs, coyotes, bears, fox, skunks, porkys, domestic dogs and cat, coons, beaver, and even a few turkeys, ducks chickens and geese. They didn't seem to have any problem with this stuff that I could see. I have never found an adult healthy mustang killed by a lion in this area, but I know they can do it they just have too many options. Also I have never found a bobcat killed by a lion but I have talked to trappers who have had lions eat them out of their traps. The get a real sweet tooth for domestic pets it seems and housecat and yard dogs seem to be a delicacy.

[sourdough]

After reading the article from the New York Times, one could probably come to the conclusion that hunters are far better at choosing a healthy animal than a predator is.

That statement is about as sound as the science behind the article. Dr. Miller used the word "might" when writing a scientific article! I would like to know how many lion kills were found? Were the kills made by lions that were radio collared for a study? Did the samples come from a deer or elk winter range, or were they random throughout the year?

It has always been stated that predators take the weak and sick. That is a feel good statement for those who might otherwise see the predator as a ruthless killer, and it makes the predator's role much more valuable. If you say it enough, people believe it without question. Some on this thread are even saying it.

Do lion's take weak and sick animals? Yes. Do they take more sick and weak animals than healthy? No. Do lion's scavenge? Yes.

Every wildlife program with a predator/prey chase that ends in some animal getting caught and killed is always narrated with 'they only take the weak and the sick' even though the chase was a long and fast one with the prey doing everything in its power to get away. The prey animals that survive never make an error.

This article is just one of many written to win the hearts and minds of those that don't have any knowledge of the outdoors and those armchair biologists that know everything because they read it in some newspaper or watched something about it on T.V. Hell, look how lovable sharks have become.

Environmental propaganda in our science community?

Just my two pennies.

sourdough

[mulemanbl]

I came across an area where the road makes a switchback turn. Within the area of the turn or horseshoe as we call it sometimes I found 2 deer kills and 2 bobcat kills all from one Tom lion. I thought maybe a female had made the kills and had cubs and the Tom come in and killed the cubs, but I had it confirmed from a taxidermist that they were bob cats.
Hey we can't let all the deer hunters read this thread.. The only thing were holding onto is that lions kill the weak and sick deer and help the herds become stronger, if they find out they kill good bucks, were sunk for sure

[BWTB]

go back to the posted article and click the link that reads "reported" read the methods of the study that they conducted and the results. Sounds alot more reliable than I once saw some tracks and it looked like the lion didn't want to eat a sick deer or any other thing that may have been assumed from tracks in the snow or the deer I saw killed didn't "look" sick to me. I think they have conducted a pretty good sound experiment and still humbly used the word might in their article.
I don't want a but lets give credit where credit is due